NFL News/Discussion 2011

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » October 25, 2011, 10:49 am

Fuck the Ravens and Fuck the Jaguars. I needed the Ravens to win to keep me untarnished in the losers pool. Now I have to buy back in. The officiating really sucked in that game. Starting with the defenseless reciever bullshit call.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » October 25, 2011, 12:41 pm

Aslanna wrote:How did you know I was laughing Sunday night?

I was by the way. I almost felt a bit sorry for them when I heard the score. Almost.

Saints probably could have (and should have) called off the dogs sooner, but damn did they suck. Painter had no chance all game with the the way those guys were playing and the Colts Defense was a comedy of errors. Stat padding because you lost to the Bucs last week is kind of bad form, but the Colts were doing so terrible that I think even the fucking towel boy could have scored on them.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » October 25, 2011, 12:43 pm

Winnow wrote:
Jice Virago wrote:Cardinals are fucked for at least two years. Its going to take them that long to get a descent O-Line in front of Kolb, assuming he lives that long. He also lacks a descent clutch reciever, since his last one went to Atlanta.
I assume you mean Kolb needs a second clutch receiver because Larry Fitzgerald has been catching any trash ball thrown remotely close to him since Warner left. You haven't been watching any Cardinal games if you think Fitzgerald isn't the still the best hands receiver in the NFL. He doesn't blow routes and makes amazing catches that look like they were thrown the to DB instead of the WR.

He is getting old and getting blanketted. He no longer has the speed to break through the double coverage. Slants are not going to keep Kolb from getting raped out there. They need a stretch guy with clutch hands to that Fitz can get stuff underneath.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 25, 2011, 1:49 pm

Jice Virago wrote: He is getting old and getting blanketted. He no longer has the speed to break through the double coverage. Slants are not going to keep Kolb from getting raped out there.

Larry Fitzgerald was born August 31, 1983, he's 28 years old heading into his prime. What the hell are you talking about? He hasn't slowed down one bit. I'll post highlights of his down the field catches from Kolb later or you can just search youtube for "Larry Fitzgerald Kolb" and save me the time.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » October 26, 2011, 12:48 pm

Your ability to ignore reality is legendary. For every clip of Fitz reeling one in, I can find three of Kolb getting his dick knocked in the dirt. If Fitz could get it done on his own, they would not be crawling around in the basement of the worst division in football. Also, not every reciever is Rice or Driver, who play into their 30s without losing a step. Fitz is getting blanketed by mutliple coverage because anyone outside of the Winnoverse knows that AZ has nothing else. Cover Fitz and you get to deck Kolb every play.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 26, 2011, 1:18 pm

You're the one that's ignoring things. You said Fits is old and losing a step. You were 100% wrong. That has nothing to do with Kolb and the O-Line. Lets stick to how clueless you are about Fitzgerald.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » October 26, 2011, 1:41 pm

Fitzgerald is a stud--top 5 wideout. Dude needs someone to throw him the rock though.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » October 26, 2011, 4:28 pm

He is good, but statwise he is not even in the top five this season. He hasn't sniffed the end zone in three games straight, which is ludicrous for a primary reciever in the current score at will NFL season. He used to break the double coverage before, but this year not so much. His stats have gotten steadly worse each year since the 2008 season (look it up yourself, if you don't believe me). Either he has lost some speed or he is laying down because he knows the team is going nowhere. Probably some combination of the two, plus Warner probably made him look better than he actually is.

And Kolb getting buttfucked (like everyone else who has been under center for the Cards the last four years, at least) every time he takes a snap has a lot to do with the fact that he is not busting those double coverages he did early in his career. Of course if the Cards had a good hands reciever with some speed to stretch things, he would have some breathing room and might be doing better, as well. Fact is, no matter the reason, his production is way down.

Sadly, this is distracting me from the greater picture of AZ sucking balls in sports again. Maybe they have a womens kayaking team you can root for or something? Its only going to get worse when Kolb finally fails to spatula himself off the turf one of these times, which I am guessing will be when Baltimore comes through to vent their frustrations on another piss poor NFC West team after shitting the bed against the Jags on National TV. If Fitz has more than 4 catches in that game, I will be shocked.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 26, 2011, 5:03 pm

Jice Virago wrote: If Fitz has more than 4 catches in that game, I will be shocked.

It's on! We'll make the over under for Fitz in the Baltimore game 4 catches and 80 yards.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » October 26, 2011, 5:27 pm

That looks like one of the most boring matchups all year! Well, maybe slightly better than BAL-JAX.

BALJAX!

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 26, 2011, 6:29 pm

ill say 4/80 even with Jice's probable arguments:

1.) Kevin Kolb. He is essentially a rookie out there, and although he’s better than last year’s crop of QB’s in the desert, the connection with Fitz just isn’t working yet.

2.) Kevin Kolb, part 2. The coaches are emphasizing basic fundamentals like footwork in his drops and throws. This, after he’s been with the team 3 months. Major red flag.

3.) Kevin Kolb, part 3. Kolb has been on the run or on the turf all season with a porous offensive line. And that’s going to change against the Ravens?

4.) Larry has not caught a TD pass since week #3.

5.) Larry is averaging 4 catches and 72 yards the past 2 games. That’s fine for a WR3; but not a 2nd round draft choice.

6.) “But with Beanie Wells out, you throw to your best athlete, right?” Yes, but the Ravens know that too. Expect bracket coverage.

7.) The Ravens were just embarrassed on Monday night on national TV to the lowly Jaguars. They are going to be angry and take it out on all of the Cardinals.

8.) Further, the game is at Baltimore, and that crowd is going to be riled up and ready for blood after the poor Monday night showing. Plus, the Cardinals have to fly east through multiple time zones to play it. Plus they have lost 10 in a row on the road. You get the idea.

9.) “Gabbert to Thomas” is no “Montana to Rice”, but the Ravens did shut down Jacksonville’s #1 WR to the tune of only one catch.

10.) Arizona won’t have the ball much, as Baltimore will correct it’s Monday mistake and continually feed the rock to Ray Rice, thus eating up yardage and clock time.

Prepare to be amazed!

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » October 27, 2011, 2:28 pm

Never, and I mean never, underestimate how bad an OC Cam Cameron is. There is a very distinct possibility he will forget about Ray Rice in the 2nd half of the game if the cards keep it close. Just like he forgot about Rice in the second half of the Titans loss and the Jags loss.

But you're right...no way they give Rice the ball only 8 times again...no way...wait...now I'm not following my own advice...

No one in my office money poll picked the jags either...and non will be picking the cards this week...but lightning can strike twice.

miir · Post by **miir** » October 31, 2011, 10:37 am

Tim LOL Tebow

masteen · Post by **masteen** » October 31, 2011, 11:20 am

Yup, he single-handedly gave up 38 points to the Lions. He was also unable to play offensive line and QB at the same time. HE SUCKS!

miir · Post by **miir** » October 31, 2011, 12:14 pm

masteen wrote:Yup, he single-handedly gave up 38 points to the Lions. He was also unable to play offensive line and QB at the same time. HE SUCKS!

Did you actually see any of the game?

He was AWFUL.
I'm not talking Rex Grossman awful... he could very well be the worst QB in the history of the NFL.
I was having Ryan Leaf flashbacks watching him embarrass himself.

Through 3 quarters he went 7-21 for 79 yards.
Even with the garbage time stat padding, he only managed a 2.9 QBR.

BRING ON BRADY MOTHERFUCKING QUINN

miir · Post by **miir** » October 31, 2011, 12:28 pm

Isn't Jamarcus Russell looking for work... I don't think he'd be any worse than Tebow.

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » October 31, 2011, 12:59 pm

I know Tebow is awful and it's cool to rag on him, but it sucks to see such a pathetic story taking attention away from the Lions' murderous offense.

miir · Post by **miir** » October 31, 2011, 1:12 pm

Leonaerd wrote:I know Tebow is awful and it's cool to rag on him, but it sucks to see such a pathetic story taking attention away from the Lions' murderous offense.

It was nice to see the Lions get back on track after a couple of hard losses, but putting up 45 points against one of the weaker defenses in the league is not really worth bragging about.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » October 31, 2011, 4:59 pm

Oh, let's not get all Lion-sy now. They have sucked balls for years. We'll need a few more years before we get used to it or care outside of Wisconsigan.

That said, little Timmy was fucking atrocious. But no, no, no Quinn. I want high DRAFTPIX! (Well, it doesn't really matter who is QB on that team.)

Too bad Miami and Indy suck even worse, and both want to get Lucky... I can almost see that scrappy Kellen Moore getting huge draft stock...then failing. sadsmurfturfface...

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » October 31, 2011, 5:26 pm

I'll get Lionsey all damn day.

The atheist in me was tickled pink when our guy knelt down ("Tebowed") after sacking his delusional ass.

We'll need a few more years before we get used to it or care outside of Wisconsigan.

Yeah right. The Lions will never have a positive media portrayal compared to the power markets. Additionally, the Suh Effect will help accumulate further negative press. By the end of the year, we'll be 12-4 and 20th in the power rankings. The "bad boy team" attitude is perfect for their position and I hope they ride the anti-hero line harder to really get that middle finger noticed........ but no late hits plz.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » November 1, 2011, 11:55 am

By the numbers, Tebow was 18/39 for 172 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT, with 63 rushing yards and 1 fumble. Bad? Sure, but the vitriol here is amazing, especially considering the alternative is Kyle Orton and his damp vagina.

miir · Post by **miir** » November 1, 2011, 12:09 pm

So you didn't see the game?

Tebow was 18/39 for 172 yards

11/18 for 93 yards in garbage time well after the game had been decided. He was completely and utterly ineffective for 3+ quarters... exactly like the Miami game.
The fumble that was run in for a TD wasn't a result of a good defensive play, it was a result of his awkward, slow throwing motion. He hangs it back for a good second. Unless he changes his release, it's only going to get worse.
And the INT that was run back for a touchdown... That was a horrible throw that was thrown right to the Lions' Chris Houston.

But hey, I have always thought Kyle Orton sucks... but at least he wasn't a first rounder with high expectations.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » November 1, 2011, 12:39 pm

And for those keeping score, Fitz: 3 catches for 98 yards, even in a game they were up by three scores in at one point. Guess I got the over/under on that one. Epic fold by the Cards once again. Right now I imagine that Winnow is going through more denial than a fundementalist christian at a dinosaur park. How do you blow a three score lead to the Ravens offense? You could leave the field empty and it would still take them over a half to score 21 points. In a week jam packed with epic failures, it was the biggest bust of them all.

Pitt is starting to look scarey, although there was so much blatent cheating going on in that game by both teams, that I don't know if it actually should count as an actual NFL game. Fitting that it ended on an illegal punch play by Palumalo. Amazing how Brady doesn't look so good when he doesn't have uber recievers around him and he is getting Man/Press. He looked genuinely lost there. Pats pass defense is almost as bad as Arizona and Indi.

Best game of the week had to be the Monday night game, though. Rivers personally fumbling away the game and sole possesion of first place in the AFC West was truely glorious.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » November 1, 2011, 1:06 pm

I find Tim Tebow entertaining because of the religious juicers that get behind him simply because he's a good boy.

At least they can point to the good times during the college years.

Have faith!

For the record, I'm giving Jice the nod on the Fitzgerald stats this week. He had 98 yards but only 3 catches. Funny though how Jice went from saying the Cardinals would be blown out to "how do you blow a three TD lead"...how to you get a 3 TD lead when you're supposed to be blown out? Make up your mind! The game winning kick was made with zero seconds on the board. That's not a blowout.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » November 1, 2011, 1:41 pm

They weren't blown out because the Ravens are apparently allergic to running the ball since week one. Still, Kolb is injured (MRI forthcomming) and they did manage to blow a huge lead to one of the worst functioning offenses in the NFL. And for the record, I never said they were going to be blown out, just physically beat up (which they were).

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » November 1, 2011, 1:46 pm

Double or nothing! Over/Under: Fitzgerald will have 6 catches/100 Yards and a TD next week!

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » November 1, 2011, 2:20 pm

Why is masteen defending this Tebow person?

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » November 1, 2011, 2:50 pm

T-bow was awful, awful, awful. Part of me wants this kid to succeed, but I am more leaning towards Luck, Landry, Barkley in next year's draft--assuming Denver will not win another game this season. 'Course, Indy and Miami are looking to not record a single win!

Some vindication: Loll-erRiversfumble. Seriously, awesome.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » November 1, 2011, 3:00 pm

I'm only sad that I had already picked Denver in our losers pool. sigh

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » November 1, 2011, 3:01 pm

I'm curious what the tie breakers are for draft pick order with tied records. Division Record if both teams had at least one win? Total points scored?

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » November 1, 2011, 3:06 pm

I think it works the same as positive tie-breakers, such as playoff births:

head to head
division record
etc.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » November 1, 2011, 3:12 pm

Tiebreakers

• Strength of schedule for the previous season is the first tie-breaker for teams with the same winning percentage. The team with the lowest strength of schedule percentage wins the tiebreaker and picks ahead of all other teams with the same record.

• Divisional and conference records are the next step in the tie-breaking procedure.

• As a last resort, a coin toss is used to determine the order of selection for teams with the same winning percentage.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » November 1, 2011, 6:51 pm

Canelek wrote:I think it works the same as positive tie-breakers, such as playoff births:

head to head
division record
etc.

You're going to need the "etc" part if there's two teams with zero wins since division record and head to head wouldn't matter.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » November 1, 2011, 6:59 pm

I think thats probably a fair guess on your part, Winnow. I doubt the Rams will show up again next week, like they did to catch the Aints napping this week. Of course, Kolb might not be in either.

Anyhow, his whole love of Jesus aside, Tebow is probably the worst NFL QB to be fielded in the modern era, backup or starter. He combines ludicrously bad mechanics and horrendous judgement with an ignorant swagger, like an Xbox Frat boy who thinks he knows something about football because he racked up 100 points a game on Madden. Kyle Orton will be the starting QB next season, unless Indi decides not to take Luck.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » November 1, 2011, 7:11 pm

Orton, Quinn in final contract year. No way they bring Orton back. My guess is Barkley unless Elway can smooze Luc and his daddy and Stanford boosters.

Best thing Tebow can do is win games to rule out a high draft pick, but we know that ain't happening. I had some hope for the kid but there is just too much wrong to fix, not to mention the whole team is awful.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » November 2, 2011, 11:52 am

Orton will still be there next year. Where the hell else is Denver going to find a veteran who plays for as little money? And outside of Miami, who already passed, who the hell else is going to take Orton? When TJack has a starting job in the NFL, you know there is a shortage of talent at the QB position. And if I were a capable backup on another team, there is no fucking way I would want to go to Denver just for a starter job. Better to hold the clipboard another year or two and wait for someone who actually has a couple linemen in front of them to retire. No, Orton is like that butterface 3am booty call that you don't want to go to, but a lack of other options at bartime kind of makes you settle for.

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » November 2, 2011, 12:31 pm

Jice Virago wrote: And if I were a capable backup on another team, there is no fucking way I would want to go to Denver just for a starter job. Better to hold the clipboard another year or two and wait for someone who actually has a couple linemen in front of them to retire.

And that is where you are mistaken.

To get to that level, athletes have an incredible drive, coupled with belief in their own ability, to go along with the talent that gets them there. Any backup QB worth the contract he signs wants to be a starter and believes he can do the job... and that means they think they can do it even in Denver.

I can't see Orton being back in Denver next year. I doubt Quinn will be either. And if Tebow doesn't turn things around, they could be looking at a clean slate. Like Canno, I feel kinda bad for the kid, as some of what is happening isn't his fault: McDaniels fucked him and the Broncos by drafting him that high and building the pressure, in the form of a need for a return on the investment. At the same time, I am sick of this much media attention and discussion centering on someone who is clearly not ready to be an NFL QB. Every Sunday and everytime I try to watch ESPN its "Tebow this" and "Tebow that" until I want the next Tebow headline to be that a fucking bus hit him outside the practice facility...

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » November 2, 2011, 1:52 pm

Exactly.

And just because nobody else wants Orton, that does not mean he will be in Denver again, unless he signs for ~1-2M. He makes 8M this year, and does not want to be a backup. Demoted QBs also do not tend to stick around Denver too long...

Look for Quinn to be the Denver starter by the end of November unless somehow Tebow corrects his myriad of flaws. Should Quinn succeed, then I can see him competing with draft pick and maybe Adam Weber for the starting gig. If he is mediocre or awful, he will be on the bus with Kyle. Keep in mind that Quinn is further fallout from the awful Josh McDaniels decisions. In this case, a 7th round draft pick and Peyton Hillis.

Post by **Sylvus** » November 2, 2011, 4:31 pm

X > Tebow is spreading like wildfire. As of this being posted, the comments on the Tebow story on espn are EXPLODING...

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/ ... post-tebow

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » November 2, 2011, 4:51 pm

I was reading the comments yesterday. Best comment chain ever!

One of my favorites:

Chewbacca trying to whisper > Tebow

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » November 2, 2011, 5:50 pm

@Wulfran-
That I think would have been undeniably true prior to the whole David Carr situation. No one wants to be the next guy who's entire career gets wrecked because he gets the living shit beat out of him and has no talent around him, like what quite publicly happened to Carr in his four years as a Texan. Thats why you have talented backups sitting behind great starters, while morons like TJack and Tebow are out there getting mauled week after week.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » November 2, 2011, 6:50 pm

Don't bring up David Carr! I don't think I have ever felt bad for any other QB. Poor bastard.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » November 2, 2011, 6:57 pm

I make no effort to hide my love for Tebow. He won two titles and a Heisman for my Gators. I just don't get all the hate for him given how truly awful Denver is at pretty much every position.

I am definitely laughing at Denver fans who are already looking to draft another QB, when they have no decent linemen on either side of the ball.

Remember when everyone laughed at the Texans for drafting Mario Williams over Matt Leinart or Reggie Bush? Everyone loves the star QB or WR or RB, but the trenches are where championships are truly built.

Those scary Steelers weren't so scary just 6 weeks ago when their O-line was struggling to adapt, but once they got things sorted out there, the whole team got better.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » November 2, 2011, 8:10 pm

I'm certainly not complaining about Denver's selection of Von Miller, even though they need DTs up the ass.

However, drafting a QB that turns out to be the next Rodgers (or hell, Cam Newton, even) is a far better first step to rebuilding an offense. How many drafts does a team need to build around a guy that looks like he needs at least 3 more years before maybe being an average passer? If Orton had more than 0 mobility, I'd be happy with that. Maybe they can splice those two together?

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » November 2, 2011, 11:44 pm

It's spreading!

http://espn.go.com/nfl/conversations/_/ ... ocking-him

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » November 3, 2011, 10:46 am

I think Masteen brings up a good point in that investing in your O-line can be big, as it buys time for even mediocre QBs to see whats happening and make some throws. The problem is Tebow doesn't look like he is even mediocre at this point: he may have been a college god, but the NFL isn't college ball. Guys like Merrill Hoge, Trent Dilfer and Steve Young, guys who played the game at that level, are pointing it out all the time:Tebow doesn't have good mechanics and he can't read defenses. Some of that comes with experience but some means he needs serious time with coaches to fix what is wrong with his game. Denver has a several-years-to-fix problem right now, and I'll buy into the theory that I don't know that them going for a QB off the bat (unless one falls into their lap and is too good to pass over) is the answer.

Hell, maybe its coaching: everyone thought Alex Smith was a write off but Jim Harbaugh is making him look good with the 49ers...

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » November 3, 2011, 1:00 pm

The key difference is that Harbaugh knows how to build the O-Line and has Gore. You can have a mediocre QB and run a bland ass generic offense and still win a lot if you have a solid line and physical back. Plus Smith at least had workable fundementals. Tebow is just fucking playing street ball out there and expecting to win, which worked fine in college as you said, where there are huge talent disparities in the teams.

If I were Denver, I would eat the shit sandwich this year and let Tebow get the shit pounded out of him, so that the Denver fans learn the consequences of pushing for a stupid change like that. I would then cut his ass and trade big for Matt Flynn (Rodger's backup, probably as talented as him) and spend every fucking draft pick I had on O-Line. Then you give Kyle MOTHER FUCKING Orton the choice of being the backup with backup pay, or trade his ass to someone dumb enough to take him, like say the Vikings or Redskins, for more depth at the line. I'd like to think that Elway is smart enough to do something along those lines, but this whole fiasco has kind of made me question if they have anything resembling a plan at all.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » November 3, 2011, 2:19 pm

Here's the thing: Denver's O-Line will be fine. They are just all fucked up dealing with a lefty QB and a rookie RT.

Keep in mind Ryan Clady is one of the best LTs in the league, Cris Kuper an above average guard. Then you have 2 second year players at center and guard, and a revolving door of TEs.

Sure, depth is sorely needed on the O-Line.

D-Line: Aside from Dumervil, Miller is standing on 3rd down, but Miller is a linebacker. Denver has nothing at DT. Nothing. The other end, Ayers, is pretty much a McDaniels first round bust.

Secondary needs serious help at CB and safety (until the two rooks pick it up--I really like Rahim Moore (2nd round 2011, UCLA), but it seems safeties take a couple years to develop.)

GREAT PUNTER!

Solid kicker with + distance!

So, basically that team needs 3 more years of draft luck, player improvement, better game plans and a dash of lucky free agency to even be considered to be on the plus side of .500, but the O-Line starters are not the biggest concern.

So, if Denver finishes with a top-5 draft pick:

QB (Barkley, unless they trade somehow for Luck)
DT
CB
RB
DT
CB
DE
OG
OT

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » November 3, 2011, 4:07 pm

Leonaerd wrote:I'll get Lionsey all damn day.

The atheist in me was tickled pink when our guy knelt down ("Tebowed") after sacking his delusional ass.

We'll need a few more years before we get used to it or care outside of Wisconsigan.
Yeah right. The Lions will never have a positive media portrayal compared to the power markets. Additionally, the Suh Effect will help accumulate further negative press. By the end of the year, we'll be 12-4 and 20th in the power rankings. The "bad boy team" attitude is perfect for their position and I hope they ride the anti-hero line harder to really get that middle finger noticed........ but no late hits plz.

Stuff like this probably doesn't help:
Detroit Lions Only NFL Team To Lose Money

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » November 3, 2011, 4:45 pm

First of all, lets be realistic here. Schwartz is as much to blame for their negative rep as anyone, with his taunting of other coaches and complete lack of discipline. Rex does some mad dick waving too, but he shows respect to the other guys and isn't a sore loser. That kind of behavior pervades the whole team and gets you in the dog house with everyone, quickly. Beating the shit out of Denver and then smack talking about it was a good example. Why open up the playbook against a team you know you can beat with the vanilla stuff and tip your hand by putting stuff on tape for others to study? Pure dick waving and its going to hurt them later on.

Second, the Lions are presently getting a dose of reality, facing actual playoff contending teams instead of the cupcake bullshit they began the season with. Outside of Tampa, who are inconsistant as hell, they never got tested before the Niners came in and beat them. Getting that far behind against the Vikings when McNabb was still taking snaps should have been a pretty good warning of what was to come, on that front and many people here said so at the time. The downside of a team that wins on emotion is that things turn to shit fast when they drop a couple of games. Maybe beating the piss out of Tebow helped on that front, but I kind of doubt it since they felt the need to bag on him even more after the game.

Third, they are not going to be 12-4, not after the way SF and Atlanta exposed them in their own house. I thought they would beat GB on Turkeyday, but now I don't think that will be the case, not with their secondary and people running right at Suh. They will lose both games to GB, lose to the Aints, and probably lose to the Chargers, which will end them at 10-6 and most likely out of the playoffs, thanks to losing the head to head with Atlanta and various minor tie breakers with the Eagles. If they even remotely shit the bed against the Bears this week, then you can pretty much call this season over, because their conferance AND division tie breakers will be behind Chicago, as well. They _should_ win that game, but if Forte runs over Suh all day long, it could turn bad for them really fast. Then they would have to beat the Aints to even have a shot at a wildcard, not to mention beat the Chargers late in the season when they are traditionally strong. Sub .500 conferance records do not get you the wildcard in the NFC.