VR Gaming

[Aslanna]

Someone figured out a hack to allow Rift games/experiences to be played on the Vive.

Lucky's Tale was one of the games that was patched to allow it to play on the Vive.

And... Killed.

Last month we reported on Revive, a proof-of-concept compatibility layer that allowed games exclusive to the Oculus Rift to be played using the HTC Vive headset. This week’s Oculus app update took steps to ensure that trick doesn’t work anymore.

Many comments in the Reddit thread on the subject point out how taking steps to ensure Oculus games don’t run on non-Oculus software flies in the face of a statement Oculus founder Palmer Luckey made back in December: “If customers buy a game from us, I don’t care if they mod it to run on whatever they want.”

More lies!

[Winnow]

At this point, there's not much reason to have anything to do with Oculus. They may have one or two exclusives worth playing but even those don't come close to the an average room scale experience over on Vive and the best room scale Vive software blows away the Rift.

Oculus has screwed up so bad. Anyone that develops for VR knows they should be sure that their games/apps work on Vive if they want to make some money or have their creations be used.

I had the chance to have my parents demo the Vive a few weeks back. My dad is in his 80's now. Both my mom and dad spent an hour straight using the Vive and didn't ask to take the headset off until I finally took it off of them. Neither one has ever been a gamer or used even a game console controller. After the Vive tutorial that lasts 5-10 minutes, they both had the hang of it and were on their way.

"If" you're going to get a VR headset this generation, Vive is the one to get. I think you can get one within weeks now while Oculus is still backlogged and having issues. Vive is just plain better. Better FoV, better and more reliable (Steam) storefront, way better room scale tracking solution (and still will be even if Oculus figures out how to do room scale with their camera based system).

[Aslanna]

A new software update for the Oculus Rift VR headset that was supposed to “curb piracy and protect games and apps that developers have worked so hard to make” has actually had the opposite effect. Whoops.

[Winnow]

Someone figured out a hack to allow Rift games/experiences to be played on the Vive.

Lucky's Tale was one of the games that was patched to allow it to play on the Vive.

And... Killed.

Last month we reported on Revive, a proof-of-concept compatibility layer that allowed games exclusive to the Oculus Rift to be played using the HTC Vive headset. This week’s Oculus app update took steps to ensure that trick doesn’t work anymore.

Many comments in the Reddit thread on the subject point out how taking steps to ensure Oculus games don’t run on non-Oculus software flies in the face of a statement Oculus founder Palmer Luckey made back in December: “If customers buy a game from us, I don’t care if they mod it to run on whatever they want.”

More lies!

Oculus removed DRM from their games with latest update and say they don't plan to add it again. Considering Oculus has an unbelievably negative approval rating for a laundy list of recent fuck ups, that's a good idea.

PlayStation VR’s weakness is the Move controller

Those lame snow cone controllers and lack of resolution (compared to Vive/Rift) are bad news for PSVR.

I want PSVR to do well for the general overall health of VR but they really should have waited for their next console. Users are going to get a blurry experience with bad tracking as it stands. The games Sony has in development look pretty good/fun but it's really not the best situation.

Like Microsoft, they should have waited until next year and introduced their VR solution exclusively for the next console with proper motion tracking and improved resolution.

VR is going to get some negative vibe due to Sony rushing things. The average non informed consumer is going to buy PSVR after hearing all the hype about VR. While $399 is "cheap" compared to Vive/Rift requirements, it's still enough money for people to pissed when it doesn't live up to expectations and cause VR adoption issues in the near future simply because they never experienced quality VR on a PC with the proper power, tracking, resolution, etc.

On a positive note, this game looks nice for PSVR:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3x2CjdykHo

Unfortunately the guy playing is using a standard controller. For me, motion controllers make all the difference in the world for in game immersion. I assume you'll be able to use the snow globes based on the shape of the controller in game.

[Winnow]

Some of the games I've played recently:


Pool Nation VR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqnP4kXvDeU

Incredible presence in a bar setting, playing pool. PSVR won't be able to touch something like this due to the high GPU demands. They just added Air Hockey to Pool and Darts. One of the best games available currently do demonstrate RL type gaming in VR. Guaranteed game where you'll accidentally try to lean on something that's not really there.

Tabletop Simulator



This one is hard to show but is awesome. It allows you 1-6 players to play...oh lets see like 3,000-4,000 tabletop games in VR. Anything from classics like Monopoly to D&D type games.

You can set environments so, for example above, playing a zombie game, you're in the right mood with the surroundings while you play your board game.

It's hard to describe how cool this is. Granted it's for those that enjoy tabletop gaming but holy shit. I don't know why there are no copy-writes for games but almost every game you can think of is in there.

Since it's VR, you can shrink yourself to the size of the board characters and run around on the playing map or make yourself a giant so hover over the board.



Highly detailed games you can play.

Find your game here:

http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/brow ... 1&days=180

9,000+ free games

This is mostly a demonstration of how well VR can make playing board type games when you're not able to play in same room IRL together. I'm not a board gamer but like checking out the game models etc.

[Winnow]

Alpha version of basic sword fighting game with developer talking about it:

https://youtu.be/QL-utL7rhjo?t=3m13s

Split screen helps a little to show off the mechanics.

[Aslanna]

I want PSVR to do well for the general overall health of VR

Based on you posting every negative thing you see about it, and PlayStation in general, I call bullshit on this statement.

But keep fighting the good fight.

[Winnow]

I want PSVR to do well for the general overall health of VR

Based on you posting every negative thing you see about it, and PlayStation in general, I call bullshit on this statement.

But keep fighting the good fight.

I do want PSVR to do well but the fact is that it's probably going to hurt the VR industry. What's difficult to grasp about that? I know from experience that half assed VR is a very bad idea. Who wants to feel nauseated?

Sony has a nicely designed headset but the tech inside isn't good enough. Resolution, which is already an issue with Vive and Rift, is even lower than those two, and most importantly, 90 FPS is established at the point where you don't get VR sickness anymore and Sony's offering is 60FPS. Tracking is the third problem with old Wii class tech trying to do modern motion control.

Take Sony's headset and put a better display in it, better motion controls, and a more powerful console (PS4 Neo won't be enough) and you're in business.

I think I have laid out very valid concerns.

[Funkmasterr]

Except for you and all of the other morons that keep obsessing over the new PS4 seem to keep forgetting that there is not a single detail about its hardware that's been announced by Sony, so whether or not it's going to be "powerful enough" is not something any of you really have any business saying. So, there's that. But who am I kidding, you're just a cunt troll anyhow.

[Winnow]

Except for you and all of the other morons that keep obsessing over the new PS4 seem to keep forgetting that there is not a single detail about its hardware that's been announced by Sony, so whether or not it's going to be "powerful enough" is not something any of you really have any business saying. So, there's that. But who am I kidding, you're just a cunt troll anyhow.

We have the Teraflops to go buy and also the speed of memory etc. Sony's next console could be faster than the latest super computer and it wouldn't help the low resolution display we know is in the current headset and the ancient motion controllers. Go back to being stupid in silence.

Plans can change and I'm sure Sony realizes they're fucked as things stand so who knows. If they're smart they'll scrap plans for PS4 Neo and put out a decent console for VR.

[Winnow]

Someone talking about the PSVR demo experience they had at Best Buy:

The other interesting thing was the girl doing the demo said she just ate dinner with one of the main people from Sony the night before in San Francisco (Then flew to Fort Collins, Colorado where I'm located) where her group was briefed on details to tell the customers and well...

This is what she told me.

1. She said the PSVR has been sold out for a year and a half for preorders.

2. She could not talk "prices" at this point because the price was subject to change.

3. They were trying to get stores to let them set up a Vive demo side by side to PSVR because they are confident the PSVR is better without comparison.

4. She informed me that PSVR was the ONLY TRUE Virtual Reality headset. She said the Oculus as well as the Vive were actually Augmented Reality and could not "Move around" like the PSVR (even though there was only one camera clearly visible)

5. I asked her if the release date was in fact October 15th and she said nononononononono. She said they are trying to have it out by December but it may be January.

Needless to say she needed a little more training was my thought. I tried to point out a few of her mistakes in information but was cut off each time with her over talking me and explaining how "I just need to sit down and try the PSVR and until then I just won't get it. (Even though by this time I told her I owned a Vive and had for a couple months several time.) I just smiled and complied with what she told me and nodded at all her misinformation.

Lol! Classic clueless salesperson. This happens to be about Sony's PSVR but we've all seen these type people for all sorts of tech products.

As for #3, if they actually set up a Vive room scale demo beside the PSVR demo, Sony would lose potential VR customers left and right.

-------

Best VR sourse is Vive's Reddit forum:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/

Oculus reddit is a mess and hostile with all the crap going on with that company.

[Aslanna]

Yet another reason to pass on Rift.

Palmer Luckey—founder of Oculus—is funding a Trump group that circulates dirty memes about Hillary Clinton.

Also, supposedly the touch controllers are fairly expensive.

Virtual reality aficionados that want to add hand-tracking to the Oculus Rift may have to pay a pretty penny for the privilege. That's based on a report from Engadget's Nick Summers, who stopped by his local GAME retail outlet and saw a banner advertisement selling Oculus Touch controllers for a recommended retail price of £189.99.

Using current exchange rates, that would correspond to a roughly $250 price for the controllers in the US. But the $599 Oculus Rift headset itself currently retails for £549 in the UK, following a seemingly Brexit-induced price hike in August. That international pricing ratio would suggest a price closer to $200 for the US version of the Touch controllers.

Vote with your wallet! And also your vote!

[Funkmasterr]

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/arch ... versy.aspx

[Funkmasterr]

I eagerly await finding out how Winnow will turn this into Sony's fault.

[Winnow]

I don't have brand loyalty for companies that screw up multiple times. Oculus blows. The Developer Kit Rift was great before anything else was available. Since then, Oculus/Palmer Luckey have provided a string of constant fuck ups. Hopefully John Carmack will take his genius mind somewhere else.

Steam/HTC Vive beats Oculus almost across the board in both hardware and software. Until next generation 4K VR headsets come out, Vive is the only decent option. Low res/snow cone/under powered PSVR is not good enough with or without the little micro bump in speed PS4 Neo powering it.

Room Scale: Don't bother with any VR solution that doesn't have it.

[Winnow]

Finally cancelled my PSVR pre-order. I hope it's successful for the sake of VR. PC (Vive) is the only decent option for this generation. Next year should bring higher resolution options. Sony appears to be stuck with a Wii tech level device for at least several years though.

Just a note. On the PC (vive) there's something along the lines of oversampling the image if you have a powerful graphics card (980ti or one of the 1080 cards) which makes the image clearer. So on top of the Vive already being higher res than the PSVR, you can improve it even more if you have a decent PC.

[Funkmasterr]

Meanwhile, all of the objective reviews I've seen for the PSVR in comparison to the other options state that even visually it looks good, and there's not nearly as big of a difference as they expected. Not to mention there's basically no software for the Vive or Rift, and I've seen many people stating that theirs are already collecting dust. The PSVR obviously isn't the highest tech option, but it will have the best software support by far. I'm not in any big rush to get it as Resident Evil is the first title I'm interested in, but I'll get one later this year.

[Winnow]

Meanwhile, all of the objective reviews I've seen for the PSVR in comparison to the other options state that even visually it looks good, and there's not nearly as big of a difference as they expected. Not to mention there's basically no software for the Vive or Rift, and I've seen many people stating that theirs are already collecting dust. The PSVR obviously isn't the highest tech option, but it will have the best software support by far. I'm not in any big rush to get it as Resident Evil is the first title I'm interested in, but I'll get one later this year.

Are you kidding? There's like 10 new games/apps a day released on Steam for Vive and, unlike PSVR, that includes utility software, etc along with games.

On the HTC Vive side, we've enjoyed seeing the roster of games steadily grow. In fact, there are so many now we can hardly keep up. There are 400 announced titles and about 200 on Steam alone.

It's not even remotely close. PSVR will have what, 20-30 titles? Vive has more than that each week with tons of low cost or free apps/demo available.

Have fun with those retarded Snow Cone motion controllers and non room scale. If you're reading about Vives being in the closet already, You may as well not even open your PSVR and place the box right in the closet. The experience is gimped in all major areas compared to Vive: Room Scale/Tracking/Resolution/Power/Titles

If you want to waste 499 by all means go ahead. It will still wow you for a little while but once you figure out that room scale is what makes VR great, you'll be moving on quickly (as well as the PS4 being incredibly underpowered for VR)


Ergonomically its the best of the three VR headsets but you also get to enjoy a gap between your nose and the headset which breaks immersion as seeing the outside world below your VR worlds is a bad bad thing when trying to enjoy the environment you're in. That' along with immersion breaking poor tracking/room scale when compared to the Vive is not a recipe for success.

I encourage you to read the entire article because that's not even all of the bad stuff mentioned. Well worth reading before you spend 499.

http://kotaku.com/playstation-vr-the-ko ... 1787424830

[Winnow]

http://kotaku.com/playstation-vr-the-ko ... 1787424830

Let’s cut to the chase: PlayStation VR should be better. At its best, Sony’s new virtual reality headset manages to conjure the astonishing, immersive wonder of modern virtual reality. Just as often it is frustratingly held back by outdated hardware that can’t quite do what’s being asked of it.

PlayStation VR is Sony’s answer to cutting-edge VR headsets like the Facebook-backed Oculus Rift and the Valve-backed HTC Vive. On paper, it offers much the same experience as its competitors at a lower price, powered not by an expensive gaming PC but by a somewhat less expensive PlayStation 4 console.

I’ve been using the PSVR for the better part of a week and have played a handful of the games that will be available at launch. I’ve been impressed by some things, turned off by others, and made nauseous by a few. Throughout that time I’ve also been disappointed. Sony’s lovely, well designed headset is consistently undermined by inferior motion controllers, an underpowered console, and a lackluster camera.

Of course you don't have to take my word for it. Pretty much exactly what I've been stating is posted above in the Kotaku review. VR on ass equipment is a bad bad idea.

It will initially feel familiar to anyone who has tried out an Oculus Rift or an HTC Vive. If you’ve never tried either of those two headsets, you’ll probably be more immediately impressed. You won’t notice the funky head tracking. You won’t mind that your in-game hands are constantly stuttering. You won’t be as put off by the blurry graphics or frame-rate dips.

Unfortunately, the headset is only part of the equation. The bulk of my issues with PlayStation VR are related to all the other stuff. From what I’ve played over the last week, the PlayStation Move controllers, camera, and even the PS4 itself do not appear to be up to the task of smoothly running modern VR games.

The camera does a middling job of tracking your head’s movement, and sometimes when I’d move more than a foot or two in any direction, I would find that the whole screen would freeze and shake.

There’s also the issue of what I think of as “persistent controller shudder.” In most PSVR games, you can look down and see either your DualShock controller or, if you’re playing a Move game, some sort of in-game representation of the Move controllers. In every game I’ve played, my in-game controllers are constantly moving even if I’m holding them perfectly still. It’s as though my character has the shakes.

Wow, that does not sound like something that should be sold. nausia puke-fest incoming.

I've had zero nausia with the Vive. I did get nauseated with the Oculus DK-2. PSVR looks like it's going to cause stomach churning experiences with it's sub par hardware. PS4 simply is not powerful enough (Pro as well) to handle VR.

Id encourage to read the full article before spending 499 on a PSVR:

http://kotaku.com/playstation-vr-the-ko ... 1787424830

[Winnow]

double post, posting issues today!

edit: may as well make use of this post since there so much great stuff in the Kotaku article posted above:

It’s hard to be optimistic about the future.

All last week, I kept coming back to the fact that the PSVR peripherals I’ve been using are mostly failed Sony hardware products. The Move motion controller came out six years ago and failed to catch on as an alternative to the Nintendo Wii. The PlayStation camera launched in 2013 alongside the PS4 and failed to become even as useful as the not-that-useful Xbox Kinect.

The PSVR, then, starts to feel like Sony’s Island of Misfit Toys. It’s a magnet for gadgets that didn’t succeed on their own merits, and it’s hard to believe that, together, they might finally break through. Back in 2014, Sony’s Richard Marks explained to us that, in a way, the Move didn’t meet its potential because it was designed to work within a 3D space, rather than the 2D screen to which it was initially constrained. But the fact remains that Sony is not using the concept of the Move for their new VR controller. They’re using actual six-year-old Move controllers. It’s admirable that they’ve gotten the results they have, but hard to overlook how far behind the old tech is lagging

We’ll certainly report back on how the PS4 Pro does with the current slate of PSVR games, but all the GPU horsepower in the world can’t make the Move and the PlayStation camera any less outdated. Furthermore, if the PS4 Pro does wind up being the preferred way to play PSVR games, the extra cost of the new console puts a significant dent in the PSVR’s appeal as a lower-priced VR alternative.

[Winnow]

Even in Engadgets "kinder" review of PSVR you get this:

Looking ahead, though, I have a feeling the PS VR won't age very gracefully. We'll likely see some more technically impressive PC VR titles next year, and it'll be left in the dust whenever we see follow-up headsets from Oculus and HTC. Microsoft is also opening up its Windows Holographic platform to VR headsets soon, so who knows what that will bring.

But here's the thing: Even though the PS VR is a good value for this nascent industry, that's still a lot of money. At this point, most consumers would be better off just waiting for prices to come down across the board in the high-end VR arena. And as great as some of the games are, none of them are true must-play experiences. I had fun with plenty of them, but nothing has pulled me back to play repeatedly as much as recent non-VR titles like Overwatch or Forza Horizon 3.

It's also unclear how much Sony will continue to support PS VR moving forward. For now, it's getting buzz for being a low-cost solution. But if Sony doesn't sell enough units, or if developers start to cool on the platform, you'll be left with an unsupported and expensive experiment. In many ways, the PS VR reminds me of the Sega CD, an expensive peripheral that gave us a glimpse at the future but was too expensive and technically limited to truly succeed

[Funkmasterr]

Or you could not seek out the negative reviews to support your point.

http://www.techradar.com/reviews/gaming ... 379/review

http://www.theverge.com/2016/10/5/13167 ... ontrollers

http://www.digitaltrends.com/vr-headset ... vr-review/

[Winnow]

PSVR has the worst tracking system with worst field of view headset. Buy it anyway! Even the smallest tracking errors is a big annoyance in VR. It's 100% about immersion and loss of tracking, narrow FoV, bad controllers are pretty much a bad way to start things off.

I'm sure you can find some "glowing" reviews of the PSVR. People are paid off every day for that kind of thing.

I've used two tracking systems. Oculus DK2 and Vive's. Both are better than PSVR and the DK2 sucked for tracking big time.

I didn't even post about the guy getting cramps from holding the stupid six year old snow cone controllers not meant for VR, or if they were are total fail compared to Oculus/Vive solutions.

The masses will still ooh and awww the first month it's released but anyone serious about enjoying VR would not go the PSVR route.

Anything that's not room scale is ass for when it comes to VR and Sony is the most limited even in teh standing sitting stationary position. Controllers are even more important in VR than they are with consoles and those absolutely blow with PSVR. That doesnt even get into the weakness of the ancient PS4 platform that will be powering it which isn't remotely close to what is needed for decent VR.

The headset itself is designed well (except for the gap underneath it letting in light and room to break immersion). Id rather wear an ugly set of glasses with the correct prescription than some cool looking glasses that are blurry. The biggest problem is Sony is now stuck with this ancient tech for several years or risk fragmenting their own user base. Sony could have used the lighthouse system developed by Steam. They open sourced it and it's by far the best/cheapest solution.

[Winnow]

I think there's going to be quite a bit of buyers remorse with the PSVR for those that pay $499 for it. I'm hoping it doesn't negatively impact VR as a whole too much.

Initially should still be amazed by it though.

[Aslanna]

A jury in Dallas, Texas has awarded ZeniMax Media $500 million after finding that Palmer Luckey (and by extension Oculus VR) violated the terms of a non-disclosure agreement.

That Palmer guy is such a genius.. Oh wait he was using stolen technology!

My prediction is Facebook gets rid of him by the end of the year. He hasn't exactly been good publicity for them.

[Winnow]

A jury in Dallas, Texas has awarded ZeniMax Media $500 million after finding that Palmer Luckey (and by extension Oculus VR) violated the terms of a non-disclosure agreement.

That Palmer guy is such a genius.. Oh wait he was using stolen technology!

My prediction is Facebook gets rid of him by the end of the year. He hasn't exactly been good publicity for them.

Palmer Luckey has 730 Million so the 50 million he has to pay out of his own pocket won't break him. A small price to pay to the party gods to get VR in the limelight and jump started instead of rotting at a company like ZeniMax.

If you had an idea for something awesome but due to your current job having a blanket intellectual property rights to all of your ideas, prevented you from realizing that dream, don't you think it would be worth risking some litigation to see your idea come to fruition? Most people in large corporations are just a cog in the machine. Xerox, IBM, Hewlett-Packard, all in some way either lacked the vision to use what they had. (Microsoft basic/IBM, Apple PC/Hewlett-Packard, Mouse/Xerox) IBM was probably the biggest loser in allowing Microsoft to sell it's OS to anyone, thinking the hardware was what mattered.

The "stolen technology" was more non disclosure agreement. (Similar to Apple "stealing" the idea for the Apple Computer from Hewlett-Packard because Steve Wozniak worked there at the time). Luckey didn't get hit with stealing "intellectual property".

I was envious of Palmer Luckey doing what he loved and being successful at a young age. His age (late teens, early 20's) at the time, ended up hurting him as well doing stupid things that people at that age do.

No matter how far he falls (if he keeps falling), he still gets credit for kickstarting the VR revolution and seeing it escalate so rapidly.

I hope I never called him a genius (not even going to go back and see if I did but I doubt it!). John Carmack and George Hotz are geniuses in their areas of expertise who have proven multiple times that they are the real deal.

Sounds like Zenimax is going to keep on suing. Appeals etc from Facebook as well.

I've already said a few times that Steam/Vive is the way to go. Oculus' solution for room scale is poorly implemented and Sony's is downright archaic.

This years VR models will be wireless. That's a huge improvement. Also, Inside-Out tracking (headset tracks instead of sensors placed around the room) will be extremely helpful. Oculus/Facebook is a mess. Either Steam/Vive, Microsoft's solutions, or a new player should be the focus. Sony is a non factor until they completely revamp their VR tracking/controllers/resolution. I'm betting we see a Sony PS4 "Super Ultimate Pro+" console edition in 2018 to compete with Scorpio combined with some new VR solution.

[Winnow]

A MacBook was brought up during questioning as well, with the lawyer asking why it was never wiped, with Carmack responding: “I am not a Mac user unless under duress.”

Nice!

John Carmack regarding Zenimax regarding copyright infringement claims:

"The analogy that the expert gave to the jury was that if someone wrote a book that was basically Harry Potter with the names changed, it would still be copyright infringement. I agree; that is the literary equivalent of changing the variable names when you copy source code. However, if you abstract Harry Potter up a notch or two, you get Campbell's Hero's Journey, which also maps well onto Star Wars and hundreds of other stories. These are not copyright infringement."

[Winnow]

This video isn't too exciting but it shows person wearing VR catching a real ball:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... xu_y8ABajQ

That's cool and I could do that with the VIVE. The controllers are well enough tracked to catch if someone threw it at you. The more interesting thing is the predictive catching. (around 1:40 into the video) Instead of tracking the thrown ball, the software predicts where the ball is going and puts a blue dot and the guy just moves his hand to the dot to catch the real ball tossed to him.

I can see predictive stuff working it's way into augmented reality quickly. But also, with the tracking (excluding PSVR, that tracking sucks) on the Vive and future VR headsets, two people could be wearing headsets but be playing something together like catch, etc in real life. So say you want to toss a ball around but don't want to do it in your backyard, but instead in a major league baseball park, you could still get the physical activity but while enjoying whatever environment you want to be in. This will of course be better with wireless headsets in a year or two!

[Aslanna]

Oculus founder Palmer Luckey leaves Facebook

Not surprised they dumped that IP stealing hack to the curb.

[Winnow]

Yeah, he pretty much ruined his image in less than a year along with Oculus. At least he set himself up nicely so he doesn't have to do anything the rest of his life except whatever he feels like doing.

Thankfully I have no brand loyalty and go with the best. My order was placed something like 36 seconds after pre-orders went up and cancelled my order weeks after they failed to deliver more than a handful of Rifts. It would take a lot for me to go back to Oculus. Steam earned my business. Will probably go with whoever has the best wireless VR headset next generation. my guess is Steam will since any company can make a steam VR headset so if HTC fails to produce a worthy successor, someone else will.

Curious to see what the various companies making Hololens headsets for Microsoft come up with.

[Aslanna]

Oculus co-founder Palmer Luckey donated $100,000 to President Trump’s inaugural celebrations through a shell company seemingly named after a time-traveling vehicle from role-playing game Chrono Trigger.

Weren't people calling him a "genius" for some unknown reason? The dude seems like a dumbo.

A rich dumbo of course but a dumbo nonetheless!

Oh yeah forgot to mention:

My prediction is Facebook gets rid of him by the end of the year. He hasn't exactly been good publicity for them.

Nailed it!

[Winnow]

Weren't people calling him a "genius" for some unknown reason? The dude seems like a dumbo.

Nope! John Carmack is a genius.

There's no excuse for Palmer Luckey's screw ups. He brought it upon himself. he did have an impressive couple years before he imploded though.

I cancelled my Oculus Rift order and moved on to Vive a long time ago.

[Animalor]

So I jumped into the phone based stuff with a Gear VR headset over the last week and I'm pretty impressed with it overall.

I'm using it with a Galaxy S8 and it's pretty well done.

I realise that it's limited compared to what is available for the Vive or the Rift but I don't need a ton of space, I can use the Xbox One S Controller (Bluetooth-enabled) for more involved games and I only ended up paying 150$ cdn for it. (was 25% off last week).

The GS8 also got Daydream support last week and I found some how-to's to get it to work with the Gear VR and used another older phone to use as the controller with Google's Controller emulator. Glad I went with the Gear VR. Daydream View seems kind of limited in software availability and polish of the experience.

All in all, not a purchase I'm regretting at the moment.

[Aslanna]

I'm not too interested in VR with the current generation although I'd pick up the Sony PS4 one if it ever got to $200.

For me I think non-gaming is the real selling point of VR. Things like tourism or live events. However that doesn't bode well for a console-based device. But give it 5-10 years there will be cheaper, better units out there. I still think it's a novelty at this point but I see the possibility and potential.

[Animalor]

Some of the experiences are cool to be sure. I've had a chance to see try HoloLens last year and that was truly impressive. As far as the Gear VR go, I'm trying experiences here and there and want to try some of the non-gaming experiences on it. I'll let you know what it ends up bring.

[Winnow]

I realise that it's limited compared to what is available for the Vive or the Rift but I don't need a ton of space, I can use the Xbox One S Controller (Bluetooth-enabled) for more involved games and I only ended up paying 150$ cdn for it. (was 25% off last week).

All in all, not a purchase I'm regretting at the moment.

The phone based VR is cool but it really just can't compete with room scale VR. The current generation wired headsets are a pain, I admit being irritated by the cables. Next year should produce some wireless versions.

VR is here to stay. Whether there is a lull in interest or not. It's understandable. The proof of concept passed with flying colors.

I'm getting too old to say "well in 5 years this will be great". I'm jealous of the amazing shit kids will be able to do with 100% immersive VR in the future. I'll still be able to enjoy it in 20 years but my reaction times, etc will be hella slow so I won't get to jump and dive around in the amazing physically active games that will emerge. I'll be sitting on a fucking virtual park bench watching younger people have a blast in VR.

Of course, as Aslanna mentioned, age won't impact some of the amazing touristy type things as well as VR movie/sports/concerts/etc type experiences.

I really don't care where I live physically. I just want to be able to virtually be wherever I feel like being while I'm doing what I feel like doing. Read the news in a hammock on the beach, watch a classic Greek play while sitting in a Greek theater, watch a Broadway play in a Broadway theater, etc. I don't need or even want to actually be there to smell disgusting people or have to wear clothes.

I may be unique, but I really don't enjoy being around most people. A few select people are all I need.

I've said it before, and will say it again, I'd be the first to download my mind into a matrix type environment. I don't give two shits about my physical body. The only thing that matters is your mind. If there was an option to trade my body for immortality for my mind, sign me the fuck up. All of your aches and pains would be eliminated, any sensory activities are mental anyway and could be induced that way as well.

What makes my nervis a little huge are the developments in mind reading. Up until now, your one guaranteed freedom and privacy were your thoughts. We are all royally fucked if mind reading devices become capable over the next 10-20 years. Of course, everyone will demand laws preventing it but you know damn well every airport terminal etc will have them whether publicly announced or not.

Anyway, in the near term, I'm looking forward to a bump in resolution and room scale wireless VR headsets. If you haven't tried room scale VR yet with motion controllers, you haven't really experienced VR at it's finest. Hololens and AR have my interest piqued as well.

[Aslanna]

Rift (with games and 2 controllers) was on sale for $400. Vive just got a permanent $200 price cut. No reason to have been an early adopter unless you have all that sweet Bitcoin cash laying around.

Personally I'd pass on the current generation of VR and see what, if anything, comes next.

[Aslanna]

Sony has sold over 3 million units so far. Along with getting continued support for it with games like Astro Bot and Tetris Effect (also can be played in non-VR). What's Oculus and HTC been up to lately? It looks like Sony is left to do all the heavy lifting trying to get the word out these days!

There are some $300 bundles now with 2 games. I think if there are Black Friday deals with it for $250 or less I might pick one up although I still don't think it would get much use. It would be nice though when they drop PS3 and Vita titles from PS+ next year if they added PSVR titles but not sure that would happen.

[Winnow]

Sony has sold over 3 million units so far. Along with getting continued support for it with games like Astro Bot and Tetris Effect (also can be played in non-VR). What's Oculus and HTC been up to lately?

Oculus has been doing very well with the wireless Oculus Go. I use mine almost every night. It's awesome for going to bed, watching videos/movies on a huge screen and sometimes listening/watching a tropical rain scene or anything else relaxing while going to sleep. The Go turns off using motion sensing so when I fall asleep it turns off within 10 minutes and doubles as a blocker of any light sources. The Go along with noise cancelling headphones can be very peaceful/relaxing.

As for their future, they have the stand alone wireless Oculus Quest coming out Spring of 2019 that has inside out tracking and can scan a 4000 square foot area (not a typo, that's a huge area) every millisecond and will cost a reasonable $399.

Having used VR headsets since the early days, wireless combined with full motion tracking is a huge deal. Oculus Go ($199) has the best optics yet for VR and Oculus Quest will improve on that, but more importantly has the inside out tracking, so no more base stations and wires for full motion tracking.

I'm glad Sony has been an outlet for introducing VR to more people. I'd caution that Sony's VR is the absolute bottom for resolution and experience. It's missing full tracking and its resolution is less than the original Vive/Oculus headsets. If you've held out this long, I'd wait for the $399 Oculus Scout as an excellent first VR experience. Great Optics, Wireless and Full motion tracking.

If you are anti Facebook (understandable, I'm not a fan either), I'd wait for whatever Sony has in store for their next console/VR product. If you do get the Sony VR, don't let it spoil your opinion of VR in general.

[Winnow]

While pretty close to 100% of people did not like the Facebook acquisition of Oculus, John Carmack is the reason to at least pay attention to their products.

Here's Carmack's keynote speech at Oculus Developer's conference:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW6tgBcN_fA

While he doesn't get technical as much in this talk , he's completely open about he shortcomings of Oculus Go, Quest and other things. It's refreshing to have someone like Carmack talk about a topic. Facebook couldn't stop him from being open even if they wanted to. He is a genius. No way in hell they would chance losing him. He is a programming god.

I bookmarked a part of his 90 minute talk where he discusses chromatic aberration and how (he) found a low power solution to fix it using hardware in the processor that wasn't being used.

https://youtu.be/VW6tgBcN_fA?t=956

The whole talk is a great listen if interested in a no bullshit look at the Oculus Go and upcoming Quest.

[Aslanna]

Sony has sold over 3 million units so far. Along with getting continued support for it with games like Astro Bot and Tetris Effect (also can be played in non-VR). What's Oculus and HTC been up to lately? It looks like Sony is left to do all the heavy lifting trying to get the word out these days!

There are some $300 bundles now with 2 games. I think if there are Black Friday deals with it for $250 or less I might pick one up although I still don't think it would get much use. It would be nice though when they drop PS3 and Vita titles from PS+ next year if they added PSVR titles but not sure that would happen.

Best Buy has (or will have) PSVR plus Astro Bot and Moss for $200 on Black Friday. If I can get that deal I'll pick one up. I believe that was my original price point I mentioned somewhere earlier in this thread.

edit!

Post by Aslanna on August 4, 2017, 8:49 pm

I'm not too interested in VR with the current generation although I'd pick up the Sony PS4 one if it ever got to $200.

[Aslanna]

I did end up getting the Moss and Astro Bot bundle for $200. I haven't really messed with it much so it's too early to give any in depth analysis, and I doubt Winnow can have a non-fanboy conversation if I happen to mention any criticisms, so I will just touch briefly on the games.

Moss: I've only played about 2-3 hours of this. I don't know quite how I feel about it at this time although the gameplay is starting to become repetitive. I could see this perhaps being a 7/10 when all is done although on Metacritic it's at 85 so maybe they mix things up as the game progresses. The environments are nice although there's not much behind you when you turn around so you can pretty much play this just fine sitting down. Standing and leaning forward does help you look around for collectibles as some can be hidden from view when sitting.

Astro Bot: I only played this for about an hour but so far it's pretty delightful! As a platformer I could see it being a lot of the same but it's too soon to say based on the 2-3 levels I played. While this too could be played sitting if you want the full experience you should really be standing. Some of the bots are hidden pretty well and the only way to see them is to look down, up, or behind you. Sometimes a combination of those. If you just want to run through to get to the end then sitting should be fine. Personally I hate standing while playing games but the game made me want to do it however that would discourage me from playing it for any long stretch of time. 2-3 hours would probably be my max. No fault of the game I just don't like standing long as my back starts to hurt.

No motion sickness so far but I doubt these would be the sort of games to trigger that as they are third person perspective of a character you are controlling. I am interested in trying a game others have issues with just to see how I fare.

[Winnow]

No motion sickness so far but I doubt these would be the sort of games to trigger that as they are third person perspective of a character you are controlling. I am interested in trying a game others have issues with just to see how I fare.

Rollercoasters, FPS games, etc would be prime candidates for motion sickness in VR. I did get motion sick sometimes using the Oculus DK2 that did not have full tracking. That went away with 90 hz refresh and full motion tracking on the Vive.

You don't walk around in a Sony VR headset since it can't track that way so it's less prone to some motion issues.

Oculus Quest would be the headset to get (Spring 2019 $399) that combines many of the things that make for great VR into once headset.

-Stand alone/wireless
-six degrees of freedom
-inside out motion tracking (up to 4000sq ft area which is amazing with 1ms refresh)
-Powerful enough to play near Rift/Vive quality games
-comes with two fully featured (same ones that come with the Rift) hand controllers
-built in audio (similar to Oculus Go but improved quality)
-2-3 hours battery life

I've never used a Sony VR headset, but I have seen the progression from Oculus DK2, Vive to my current Oculus Go VR headset for visual clarity. It's come a long way, and the Sony is worse than all three of those so I hope you eventually give the Oculus Quest, or something from the upcoming generation a try. I know that when I demoed my Vive for some relatives that had only previously experienced cheapo phone VR thingies, they immediately could tell the difference and now ask me to bring it when I visit.

If any of your criticisms were from poor fuzzy picture, and lack of immersion, small field of view or poor tracking, those are known deficiencies of the Sony VR headset.

Here's an example of a VR movie putting you in the movie:

https://youtu.be/yBeNZ-bn0Vs?t=161

I bookmarked the point where the movie begins. Of course, you have to imagine it with a VR headset where there are no borders and you can look all around.

If you want something non-oculus, it looks like Valve has a new VR headset in the works:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVzBVNZOTOM

[Aslanna]

For PSVR my total outlay was only $200 and I could use it with my current console. I mainly got it just for the novelty of it, to see what the fuss was about, but Astro Bot is winning me over! I finished World 2 and am still having lots of fun. I didn't think VR would make a difference in a game like a platformer but they did a good job with it from what I have seen so far.

Moss on the other hand.. While it may be a good game I don't know when/if I will get back to it. Solving a puzzle, just to move on to another room and solve a slightly different puzzle, became tedious so I shut it off. The world, and Quill the main character, is cool and all but the gameplay is where I am struggling. Similar to RDR2 actually but that's a topic for a different thread. I will say though that Moss is probably a better game than RDR2.

Is PSVR the clearest VR experience? No. I think it was Game Informer that called it 'muddy' in one review. But I knew the limitations when I bought it. When you just stop and look at the picture the limitations are more obvious but once you start moving and getting into the game they're not as apparent. At least from what I've seen so far but then again I've only tried those two games. It would be nice though that when I did stop to give something a closer look the resolution was better but it's not like it's super terrible or anything. Hopefully Sony keeps at it and releases PSVR2 with the PS5. I know you hate Sony but you have to admit they are still supporting and promoting it very well. They didn't just toss it out there to die. I can imagine that they sold quite a few of the bundles over the holiday.

I knew there was potential in VR, and I'm pretty sure I said so in this thread, I just didn't think it was here yet with the current generation of headsets and at the prices they were launched at. Sure Vive was the best experience but not everyone had the high-end computer to utilize it or the $800 that the headset cost when it launched. For the person with just a PS4 I think PSVR, if you can get it for $200 or less, is an acceptable experience but I really need to spend more time with it to say so definitively.

[Winnow]

Glad you're having some fun with it!

If you plan to stick with Sony VR then you should hope for:

-Wireless
-real motion controllers
-inside out tracking so you have the freedom to move anywhere you want

If Oculus Quest can offer all of that in a stand alone $399 device, PS5, which will have many times more powerful CPU/GPU than basically one designed for a phone, should be able to offer a decent VR headset. Current Sony VR is like watching an old picture Tube TV with a 360 interlaced screen while trying to operate it wearing mittens. The alternative compared to that would be like watching a flat screen HD TV while wearing driving gloves.

In the case of VR, my intention isn't to bash Sony. It's simply a very limited version of VR. As long as you are aware that VR experiences can be way better than that, it's all good. It may be worth keeping an eye on what Valve/Steam end up offering next year. Your 1070 should be able to handle it and Steam knows what it's doing on the software side of things. If you watched the video I linked in my previous post, it shows their prototype controllers that track your fingers.

The Oculus Go is a great stand alone VR device for $199. I use it almost every night. It's awesome for media consumption. Most people, including me, use it mostly for other things than games. Right now on the Oculus Go reddit site, people are raving over the app, Wander, which uses google streetmap type tech along with tons of 360 camera images to take you on VR tours of museums, indoor and outdoor things. Want to go to the top of the Eiffel Tower and look straight down? You can get there in a few seconds and see it! I use the Go mostly for watching you tube videos on a monster screen while in bed. Besides watching on a gianormous screen, it also doesn't matter which way you have your head , you can orient the screen so you see it looking straight up at the ceiling etc.

As I get older, I want more "hassle free" devices. Oculus Go is that and the Oculus Quest will be a day one purchase for me. Quest will probably be the first VR device I recommend to friends and family to buy.

[Aslanna]

BEST VR/AR GAME 2018

ASTRO BOT Rescue Mission (SIE Japan Studio / SIE)

Go go Astro Bot!

[Winnow]

VR Update!

I still use my Oculus Go quite often. Typically in bed to watch YouTube videos to relax before going to bed (I know having blue light an inch from my eyes isn't the best way to go to sleep be you can't have everything!)


Oculus Quest

I received my Oculus Quest day one (May 21st). Facebook/Oculus is prepared for this release and most everyone that pre-ordered got theirs on day one. Looks like Amazon shows just a few days for the 64GB version to be restocked and a month for the 128GB (which is the one I got). 64GB $399, 128GB $499

I can compare this to my prior VR headsets: Oculus DK2 (Developer Kit 2), HTV Vive, and Oculus Go headsets.

1. Wireless make a HUGE difference. No more fighting cables hanging off your head while you move around. Go is wireless as well but it's a stationary 3dof (three dregrees of freedom) device.

2, The Controllers are great. I won't compare to the snow cones PSVR uses because those are a joke. They are better than the HTV Vive's original large wand controllers. Having a joystick on each hand is a big help to ease of use (along with the squeeze side grip and three other buttons by the joysticks) They allow you to point or make a fist in VR which helps when you're pushing buttons, punching things etc.

3. Inside out tracking is amazing. No need for tracking stations. The sensors you see on the edge of the front of the Quest headset track your hand movements. Complete hassle free detection of the hand controllers and Quest remembers every play space you create so you don't have to redraw them.

4. Setup is a breeze. No PC required. You install Oculus App on Android/IOS phone, that app detects your Quest and the Quest gives you a 5 digit code to type into the app, you type in your wireless password on the App and you're done. (You don't need wireless to use the quest but obviously need it to download games, play online etc) Audio is built in and very good although you can use your own headphones if desired. I don't see the need unless it's for privacy (build in audio is audible to others)

The Quest has front facing cameras so when you are asked to draw your play space, you can see what you're doing and the playspace doesn't have to be exact rectangle, you can draw around furniture etc and it will use every bit you give it.

Games recommend 6.5 foot by 6.5 foot space and will warn you if your play space is smaller than that, but it doesn't prevent you from playing the game, you may just see the warning grid materialize sometimes if you get too close to the edge. The other really nice thing about the Quest is if you poke your head through the play space wall, your pass through cameras turn on so you can see (makes getting a drink, etc way more convenient) The cameras are low quality black and white, they aren't meant for AR, just so you can see enough to function.

So setup is: Install phone app, type in five digit code and wireless router password. The Quest will prompt you to draw your play space (you can have as many as you want, anywhere you want (it will remember if you go to a friend and draw a space there so you won't have to the next time for example) You can set play spaces and "stationary" spaces for when you are sitting down, etc. Side note: You don't need a Facebook account, can use an Oculus Account for purchases which is what I do.

The tutorial is fantastic. Quickly teaches you the controller functions and lets you play around with a few tutorial demos, picking things up, shooting things, etc. After the tutorial, anyone that hadn't been sold on VR will be.

5. Experience. What makes Quest such a big deal is it being a full 6DOF featured VR headset that's wireless and very easy to setup and use. My first purchase was Vader Immortal for $9.99. This is an episodic Star Wars adventure that features Darth Vader and you as a jedi. It's an outstanding showcase for the Quest and VR. It's an adventure, you aren't just swinging around your lightsaber. You start out in a small ship, and then eventually travel around on the ground in a station. Visually amazing (especially considering it's running off basically a phone CPU/GPU). It showcases much of what you can do in VR...interactive, visually stunning (heights, massive environments), action, fighting with light saber, deflecting crap, etc. It would be the first app/game I'd recommend getting. It's only 1-2 hours but also only $10 and can replay, works as an outstanding demo.

6. Battery Life: Not sure, I made it through the entire Vader Immortal game in one go but forgot to check my battery level afterwards. I think people are saying 2.5 hours of active use (Vader would be example of the most power hungry games) longer for media consumption like watching movies etc.

You can stream media from you PC, etc. There are apps for all the usual stuff (Netflix etc).

Oculus Quest would be the first VR headset I would recommend for non techie type people that don't have powerful PCs and don't want to deal with long setups etc. Quest is plug and play (minus the plug). It already has a lot of games/software available thanks to converted games from the Oculus Rift and lots of media apps etc from the Oculus Go that preceded it. You also don't have to take my word for it. The reviews are overwhelmingly positive out there on the net.

Here's someone playing Vader (note: headphones and that wire aren't necessary : )

Fun for the whole family! Someone's wife playing Superhot

[Aslanna]

Nintendo released Labo VR so.... You no longer need to worry about Sony ruining VR anymore. Nintendo has that covered!

[Winnow]

I hate Nintendo! Every one of their products! 100% pure crap. As long as there are poor people and ignorant parents, Nintendo will remain in existence to sell their weak sauce products to them.