Study recommends total ban on smoking for soldiers

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Study recommends total ban on smoking for soldiers

Post by Winnow »

Jesus, I'm anti smoking but for fuck's sake, if soldiers want to smoke, let them fucking smoke.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/12/milita ... index.html
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- You've seen the iconic picture of a soldier with a cigarette dangling from his mouth, but that could soon be a thing of the past.

A new study commissioned by the Pentagon and the Department of Veterans Affairs recommends a complete ban on tobacco, which would end tobacco sales on military bases and prohibit smoking by anyone in uniform, not even combat troops in the thick of battle.

According to the study, tobacco use impairs military readiness in the short term. Over the long term, it can cause serious health problems, including lung cancer and cardiovascular disease. The study also says smokeless tobacco use can lead to oral and pancreatic cancer.

The Defense Department's top health officials are studying the report's suggestions and will make recommendations to the Pentagon's policy team and Defense Secretary Robert Gates.

The study recommends phasing out tobacco products such as cigarettes and cigars over a five- to 10-year period.

However, the suggested ban does not sit well with many in uniform, including retired Gen. Russel Honore, best known for coordinating military relief efforts for Hurricane Katrina-affected areas with an ever-present stogie. He said soldiers at war need to puff.

"When you're tired and you've been going days on end with minimum sleep, and you are not getting the proper meals on time, that hit of tobacco can make a difference," said Honore, who was in charge of the Army's training programs before he retired.

Other soldiers questioned whether this was a good time to stamp out smoking, given the Army's concern with a high suicide rate.

"For some, unfortunately, they feel that smoking is their stress relief. Well if you take it away, what is the replacement?" said Sgt. 1st Class Gary Johnson.

The Pentagon supports the goal of a tobacco-free military, said spokeswoman Cynthia Smith.

"However, achieving that goal will depend on coincident reductions of tobacco use in the civilian population," she said.

Dr. Ken Kizer, the author of the study, found that civilians don't smoke as much as soldiers. One in three active duty soldiers smoke, he said, adding that among the general population, that number is less than one in five.

The Pentagon banned smoking in buildings on bases years ago. It has counselors on call to help service members quit. But while local governments have heavily taxed tobacco, the commissaries often sell it at deeply discounted prices.

"The military sends very mixed signals," Kizer said. "This is what's confusing to people."

The study found that profits from those tobacco sales -- $80 million to $90 million -- often pay for recreation and family programs on base.
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Re: Study recommends total ban on smoking for soldiers

Post by Sueven »

I know some soldiers who would be very unhappy about this.
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Re: Study recommends total ban on smoking for soldiers

Post by miir »

When you're tired and you've been going days on end with minimum sleep, and you are not getting the proper meals on time, that hit of tobacco can make a difference
What a retard.
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Re: Study recommends total ban on smoking for soldiers

Post by Jice Virago »

On the one hand, I am against this because it infringes personal freedoms. On the other hand, military personel are essentially the property of the government (by choice and contract) and anything that impedes the longterm health of a soldier is essentially destroying that government property, to say nothing of what the second hand smoke will do to others. Ultimately, though, I would prefer they focus on some other important crap in the armed forces first, like not booting the gay translaters, kicking out the jesus freaks who are pushing bibles on the local middle eastern people, getting everyone proper body armor, and getting the Kilmol style neonazi militia freaks the fuck out of the service.
War is an option whose time has passed. Peace is the only option for the future. At present we occupy a treacherous no-man's-land between peace and war, a time of growing fear that our military might has expanded beyond our capacity to control it and our political differences widened beyond our ability to bridge them. . . .

Short of changing human nature, therefore, the only way to achieve a practical, livable peace in a world of competing nations is to take the profit out of war.
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Re: Study recommends total ban on smoking for soldiers

Post by Trek »

Yea kick those fuckers out for passing out bibles!
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Re: Study recommends total ban on smoking for soldiers

Post by Animalor »

Seems to me there are a lot of things in a soldier's life that are much more lethal than cigarettes.

How about banning enemy bullets..
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Re: Study recommends total ban on smoking for soldiers

Post by Spang »

Smoking is stupid but this idea is stupider. If one can die for their country, one can smoke fucking cigarettes. And fuck hookers, while we're at it.
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Re: Study recommends total ban on smoking for soldiers

Post by Animalor »

They need to create a hooker and man-whore corps. Men and women who's jobs it would be to give it up for the fighting troops and overall help with Morale!
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Re: Study recommends total ban on smoking for soldiers

Post by Wulfran »

Jice Virago wrote: On the other hand, military personel are essentially the property of the government (by choice and contract) and anything that impedes the longterm health of a soldier is essentially destroying that government property, to say nothing of what the second hand smoke will do to others.
The thing is a person's body is NOT government property: the way the US (and most other governments) ignore veterans (wounded and guys suffering from things like PTSD) is argument why ther individual shouldn't be treated as such. I can see the gov't imposing smoking restrictions while you are on duty but as long as a soldier can pass whatever fitness and readiness evaluations the job requires, there shouldn't be restrictions on their off duty activities. If they can smoke a pack a day and do what their contractual obligations require then so be it.
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Re: Study recommends total ban on smoking for soldiers

Post by Ashur »

Why ban it? Just apply the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" Policy to it. :lol:

(Brief interruption of my CE post retirement for a snarky one liner. I used to be in the military and I smoked sometimes then as well. They may as well ban the use of alcohol as well.)
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Re: Study recommends total ban on smoking for soldiers

Post by Aabidano »

On the other hand, military personel are essentially the property of the government (by choice and contract) and anything that impedes the longterm health of a soldier is essentially destroying that government property
Agreed on the contract portion, if they pass rules against smoking, that's that. It's really only an impact if they stick around until retirement, and then survive long enough to have smoking related illnesses crop up. Thanks to congress military retirees get booted from the military system and placed under medicare at 62, so the duration of impact as opposed to the general populace is fairly small. Many more are like me and have military retiree benefits but never use them because of employer programs.

Even chain smokers can pass the fitness tests during active duty.
...second hand smoke will do to others.
Smoking on military bases, including vessels is very restricted. If you're getting second hand smoke it's because you've gone out of your way to do so in nearly every instance. Just like the civilian world, picking on smokers is a popular\acceptable thing to do.
...like not booting the gay translaters
In those people's specific case it's not a big deal were they to stay on active duty. On the other hand, your average 18-25 year old rural redneck isn't so accommodating of gays. Placing persons they don't see as people along side them in high stress, extremely dangerous environments just doesn't seem to be a smart move until societies' values as a whole have changed more. Does that mean I condone violence, etc.. against gays?, no but it's reality.

Don't ask don't tell to me is a reasonable compromise until society as a whole changes. The civil rights changes that were imposed on the military 30+ years worked very well, but were rather painful for all involved also. I was around for the tail end of it. It wasn't a pretty time and some serious resentment remained. This is similar, but much more dangerous to the minority involved.
...kicking out the jesus freaks who are pushing bibles on the local middle eastern people
Hadn't heard of that one, we were always strongly warned against that sort of activity and told me might be "on our own" if caught. For every case that makes the news there are a bunch more where servicemen doing something stupid are held in local jails overseas until the consulate can get them out. We had 3 Marines come aboard our ship after being in the Dubaii jail for 6 or so months (2 drunk idiots and a hapless bystander), if the consulate hadn't been feeding them the whole time they'd have been in trouble. It's basically bread and water unless someone outside pays for or brings better.
...getting the Kilmol style neonazi militia freaks the fuck out of the service.
Yes they're there but they boot them all the time, gang bangers, etc.. too. Unfortunaltey it draws that sort of person, who don't really know what it's like beforehand.
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Re: Study recommends total ban on smoking for soldiers

Post by Funkmasterr »

Ashur wrote:Why ban it? Just apply the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" Policy to it. :lol:

(Brief interruption of my CE post retirement for a snarky one liner. I used to be in the military and I smoked sometimes then as well. They may as well ban the use of alcohol as well.)
If that happens they will need to enact the draft to get people in the military. :lol:
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Re: Study recommends total ban on smoking for soldiers

Post by masteen »

Of the soldiers I've known, even they guys who weren't addicts talked about how useful a little tobacco could be when they'd been in the field and mostly awake for days on end. Of course, these benefits fade as you become habituated and addicted, soo...
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Re: Study recommends total ban on smoking for soldiers

Post by Leonaerd »

miir wrote:
When you're tired and you've been going days on end with minimum sleep, and you are not getting the proper meals on time, that hit of tobacco can make a difference
What a retard.
What's so retarded about taking the edge out of a stressful situation? Humans have vices and have been smoking since cavetimes. You are the canadian family that moves next door to Hank in King of the Hill. In case you haven't seen it: Hank wins.
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Re: Study recommends total ban on smoking for soldiers

Post by miir »

Why not replace a hit of tobacco with a joint, a line of coke or a shot of heroin? :roll:

"A hit of tobacco" makes no fucking difference unless you're an addict.
Humans have vices and have been smoking since cavetimes
And in 'cavetimes', humans had the intelectual capacity of a 6 year old a life expectancy of less than 25 years.
What exactly is your point?
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Re: Study recommends total ban on smoking for soldiers

Post by Fash »

tobacco is legal.
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Re: Study recommends total ban on smoking for soldiers

Post by Aslanna »

It was just a study.. Calm down!
Pentagon Won't Ban Tobacco Use in Military
Posted by Prerana Swami
(AP / CBS)

The Pentagon said today that it will not ban the use of tobacco in the military, the Associated Press reports.

The announcement comes after a study commissioned by the Pentagon and the Department of Veteran Affairs recommended terminating the use and sale of tobacco products on military property. The study also recommended the military ensure enlistees are smoke-free.

Pentagon press secretary Geoff Morrell said Wednesday that Defense Secretary Robert Gates doesn't want to add to the stress levels of troops fighting wars in Iraq and Afghanistan by taking away tobacco products. He also said that Gates plans on pursuing the goal of a smoke-free military, according to the AP.

When the news broke that the Pentagon was considering a tobacco ban, many voices came out in protest. Jeff Emanuel wrote in a CBSNews.com op-ed that the servicemembers shouldn't be subject to a blanket smoking ban.

"Yes, tobacco has been proven to cause both short and long-term health problems - but are we really going to preach about health benefits of their activities to Americans we pay (albeit poorly) to be shot at for a living?" Emanuel asked.

Retired Navy veteran Bobby McCarter, meanwhile, said that he is "totally against" the smoking ban, MSNBC reports. McCarter, who served 20 years in the Navy, said that the men and women in combat need a "cigarette break for stress relief."

Newsweek's Adam Weinstein, who has spent seven months on Camp Victory in Baghdad, said that the general reaction of the soldiers to the study was this: "Bullets and mortars. Desert heat and polluted Mideast air. And now this? Shut up, do-gooders; go hug a tree someplace, and let me have my menthols."

Some do support an idea of the ban for the greater good, however. While Emanuel says that tobacco use is an "ingrained" part of military culture, Weinstein points out that the study suggests the ban over a period of 20 years and that the stereotype surrounding smoking in the military "can – and should – change."

"If the health risks of smoking among soldiers can be done away with, even incrementally, then it’s time to start," Weinstein said. "It would lead to a fitter force. It would cut down on the staggering health-care costs for veterans. And it would save lives in the long term—an oft-stated priority for the generals and admirals who command America’s serving sons and daughters."

Emanuel, however, says that the physical standards already in place in the military show that a ban on smoking would not lead to a "fitter force."

"If soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines can meet the physical standards their respective chains of command have set for them, what they legally do in their own time should be considered entirely irrelevant, as it has been demonstrably shown to have no effect on their ability to meet those standards," he argues.
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Re: Study recommends total ban on smoking for soldiers

Post by Leonaerd »

Why not replace a hit of tobacco with a joint, a line of coke or a shot of heroin?
:-s

Legality.

"A hit of tobacco" makes no fucking difference unless you're an addict.
There are plenty of addicts in the military. Take away their cigarettes and you take away the legal fix.
And in 'cavetimes', humans had the intelectual capacity of a 6 year old a life expectancy of less than 25 years.
What exactly is your point?
We've been at it for a while, militarily and recreationally. Humanity has made it this far through many generations of hardcore tobacco smokers. We are equally (if not moreso) capable of handling smoke in our lungs than our ancestors, and people smoke less now than in the past.

So... what's so retarded about taking the edge out of a stressful situation?
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Re: Study recommends total ban on smoking for soldiers

Post by Kaldaur »

We are equally (if not moreso) capable of handling smoke in our lungs than our ancestors
Lol, are you suggesting we will evolve to fight lung cancer by smoking enough?
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Re: Study recommends total ban on smoking for soldiers

Post by Leonaerd »

Nope. Our lazy, corporate lives allow us the luxury of not needing to exert ourselves as the pre-industrial revolution guys did, so we aren't as affected by smoking's adverse effects. Combine this with modern health care and voila, a long lifetime of slow suffocation.

So what's so retarded about taking the edge off of a stressful situation? I just can't see how anybody figures there is a net positive gained by banning cigs in the military. I smoke one cig a week or so and it's delicious. I'd want to smoke a lot more if I was a soldier, undoubtedly. That hit of tobacco can make a difference.
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Re: Study recommends total ban on smoking for soldiers

Post by masteen »

miir wrote:Why not replace a hit of tobacco with a joint, a line of coke or a shot of heroin? :roll:

"A hit of tobacco" makes no fucking difference unless you're an addict.
Well, the smack and weed won't help you stay alert, and while coke certainly would, it also fucks up your judgement and has a nasty comedown. So legal concerns aside, those are counterproductive.

A hit of tobacco will most certainly affect a non-addict much more than someone who is habituated. Your argument is completely contrary to how CNS stimulants work.
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Re: Study recommends total ban on smoking for soldiers

Post by Cracc »

I dont get why you americans see the military as something so sacrosanct, seeing as your country does not have a draft like we do here, its a job like everyt other, and someone who employs you and pays your salary has every right to decide what you will and will not do during your working hours.
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Re: Study recommends total ban on smoking for soldiers

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Cracc wrote:I dont get why you americans see the military as something so sacrosanct, seeing as your country does not have a draft like we do here, its a job like everyt other, and someone who employs you and pays your salary has every right to decide what you will and will not do during your working hours.
It's different when it's a 24 / 7 job, and cigarettes are addictive. That there's no draft doesn't take away from the life or death risks. If I'm willing to sacrifice myself, I want a smoke.
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Re: Study recommends total ban on smoking for soldiers

Post by Winnow »

Cracc wrote:I dont get why you americans see the military as something so sacrosanct, seeing as your country does not have a draft like we do here, its a job like everyt other, and someone who employs you and pays your salary has every right to decide what you will and will not do during your working hours.
We don't need a draft because we have a country worth fighting for and those that volunteer deserve a few liberties as long as it's not hurting someone else. Your countries need a draft because the populace is used to being protected by the United State lately an sees no reason to join the military.
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Re: Study recommends total ban on smoking for soldiers

Post by Bagar- »

YEAH SWEDEN, SUCK OUR DICKS. FUCKING EURO PANSIES.

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Re: Study recommends total ban on smoking for soldiers

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Winnow wrote:
Cracc wrote:I dont get why you americans see the military as something so sacrosanct, seeing as your country does not have a draft like we do here, its a job like everyt other, and someone who employs you and pays your salary has every right to decide what you will and will not do during your working hours.
We don't need a draft because we have a country worth fighting for and those that volunteer deserve a few liberties as long as it's not hurting someone else. Your countries need a draft because the populace is used to being protected by the United State lately an sees no reason to join the military.
Im not telling you the US needs a draft, im telling you that unlike here being in the military is a choice and a job.

Also, who is it you are protecting sweden from exactly? Arabs? China? The IRA? Martians?
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Re: Study recommends total ban on smoking for soldiers

Post by Cracc »

Leonaerd wrote:
Cracc wrote:I dont get why you americans see the military as something so sacrosanct, seeing as your country does not have a draft like we do here, its a job like everyt other, and someone who employs you and pays your salary has every right to decide what you will and will not do during your working hours.
It's different when it's a 24 / 7 job, and cigarettes are addictive. That there's no draft doesn't take away from the life or death risks. If I'm willing to sacrifice myself, I want a smoke.
So, if you have a dangerous job you deserve to have a smoke? I fail to see the logic in that.

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Re: Study recommends total ban on smoking for soldiers

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Re: Study recommends total ban on smoking for soldiers

Post by Bojangels »

Cracc wrote:
its a job like everyt other...What you deserve for a job is a paycheck, nothing more, nothing less.
Lol this is the dumbest thing I've heard in a while. Troll harder.
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Re: Study recommends total ban on smoking for soldiers

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Bojangels wrote:
Cracc wrote:
its a job like everyt other...What you deserve for a job is a paycheck, nothing more, nothing less.
Lol this is the dumbest thing I've heard in a while. Troll harder.
Yeah, and this must be the best counterargument i've read in my lifetime.
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Re: Study recommends total ban on smoking for soldiers

Post by Noysyrump »

It's all moot anyways, as it was stated there will be no ban, but however...

Miir, have you ever been a smoker? You call someone who speaks the truth a moron, when people who have or do smoke know what he means, kinda makes you appear to be the moron. I'm a smoker now because after my divorce ( a rather messy one ) I was very stressed out and it was the ciggaretes that kept me from killing that bitch slut and the jackass she was sleeping with. Am I happy about beein a smoker? No of course not, I spend way too much money on it and I know it may kill me. But quiting just plain aint easy.

And by the way, No we have not been smoking tobacco since we were cavemen. Some guys with clubs crossed some iceburg and ended up in north america, and at some point discovered smokin this leaf was kinda cool, but due to there general lack of an alphabet noone knows when they started smoking it. But the rest of the world didnt smoke it until Pokahontus starting exporting that shit back to england.
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Re: Study recommends total ban on smoking for soldiers

Post by Noysyrump »

Cracc wrote:
Winnow wrote:
Cracc wrote:I dont get why you americans see the military as something so sacrosanct, seeing as your country does not have a draft like we do here, its a job like everyt other, and someone who employs you and pays your salary has every right to decide what you will and will not do during your working hours.
We don't need a draft because we have a country worth fighting for and those that volunteer deserve a few liberties as long as it's not hurting someone else. Your countries need a draft because the populace is used to being protected by the United State lately an sees no reason to join the military.
Im not telling you the US needs a draft, im telling you that unlike here being in the military is a choice and a job.

Also, who is it you are protecting sweden from exactly? Arabs? China? The IRA? Martians?
The United States was tasked with carrying a large part of the burden of defending western europe from yer neighbors to the east. In case you forgot. I wont name any names but thier initials were CCCP. Dont know if Sweden was NATO or not, but be sure we woulda saved yer asses none the less.
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Re: Study recommends total ban on smoking for soldiers

Post by Ashur »

Noysyrump wrote:
Cracc wrote:
Winnow wrote:
Cracc wrote:I dont get why you americans see the military as something so sacrosanct, seeing as your country does not have a draft like we do here, its a job like everyt other, and someone who employs you and pays your salary has every right to decide what you will and will not do during your working hours.
We don't need a draft because we have a country worth fighting for and those that volunteer deserve a few liberties as long as it's not hurting someone else. Your countries need a draft because the populace is used to being protected by the United State lately an sees no reason to join the military.
Im not telling you the US needs a draft, im telling you that unlike here being in the military is a choice and a job.

Also, who is it you are protecting sweden from exactly? Arabs? China? The IRA? Martians?
The United States was tasked with carrying a large part of the burden of defending western europe from yer neighbors to the east. In case you forgot. I wont name any names but thier initials were CCCP. Dont know if Sweden was NATO or not, but be sure we woulda saved yer asses none the less.
Sweden has not participated in any war or joined any military alliance since 1814.
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Re: Study recommends total ban on smoking for soldiers

Post by miir »

I smoked for over 20 years.


Nicotine triggers a discharge of epinephrine which increases blood pressure, respiration and heart rate.
Only after a person is addicted to nicotine will a cigarette relax you or take the edge off.
Like an addiction to any substance, the first 'hit' after being deprived of it for a long period of time has a very profound effect on the body and mind.
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Noysyrump
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Re: Study recommends total ban on smoking for soldiers

Post by Noysyrump »

Ashur wrote:Sweden has not participated in any war or joined any military alliance since 1814.

Still guilty over the middle ages are they? Luckily they didnt cut iron ore exports to the Nazis wich saved them from Norway's fate. The Soviet Juggernaught wouldn't have been content on just exports had they made an expansive move, wich of course they didnt. Cause they knew we woulda stood in thier way, again.
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Re: Study recommends total ban on smoking for soldiers

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You would think the very real possibility of being sent off to fight and die in a forein land would be a bigger deterrent to joining the military than not being able to smoke.
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Re: Study recommends total ban on smoking for soldiers

Post by Ashur »

Noysyrump wrote:
Ashur wrote:Sweden has not participated in any war or joined any military alliance since 1814.

Still guilty over the middle ages are they? Luckily they didnt cut iron ore exports to the Nazis wich saved them from Norway's fate. The Soviet Juggernaught wouldn't have been content on just exports had they made an expansive move, wich of course they didnt. Cause they knew we woulda stood in thier way, again.
Actually they were enforcing their claim over Norway from the outcome of the Napoleonic Wars (it was owned by Denmark), the Norwegians decided not to give in. It didn't go too well for the superior Swedish army, but the whole thing didn't get played out (probably for the good of all) because Norway agreed to join Sweden, but eventually was given self rule.
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