Roger Clemens

Lynks · Post by **Lynks** » May 6, 2007, 10:50 pm

Damon missed a handful of games too.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » May 7, 2007, 12:37 am

~ $4.5 Million per month

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » May 7, 2007, 3:04 pm

Truant wrote:
Chidoro wrote:
Truant wrote:Saw a headline yesterday with a quote from him saying end of may was his personal deadline for the decision.

I could only see him playing for the Yankees if the money is retardedly more than anyone else. He does this because he wants more rings. He's trying to end up on the team that looks like it's going to win the whole shebang. Honestly, if the Yankees don't change something and get out of the funk they're in, I don't see him picking them.

(Disclaimer: Statements presented in the second paragraph are my opinion only and not intended to be represented as actual facts. Suck it.)
having just about their entire starting lineup on the dl doesn't help any team all that much
The only person from the starting lineup that has been on the DL this season is Matsui. Posada missed a few games but was never actually on the DL. The Yankees have had 6 pitchers on (or are still on) the DL.

So in summary, the starting line up is not the problem, the bullpen is.

Grats on Clemens btw.

I should have ben more specific and stated starting pitching. Their 1-2-whoknowsifhe'sanygood in Wang, Mussina, and Pavano is a pretty big deal. Not to mention their potential star in Hughes on the DL now and Pettitte having issues while never specifically being on the DL during the regular season.

I actually hate that Clemens is coming back except to prevent him from going to Boston. Other than that, it irritates me that they are buying in again. They were beginning to slowly (very slowly) get away from that

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » May 7, 2007, 4:54 pm

It was great drama though. If he can give us 10-12 wins, I'd be very happy. If Hughes mends okay and comes back and gives us 10-12 wins, plus Petite, Moose and Wong contributing 14-18 wins a piece, I think we can pull out a Wild Card spot.

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » May 8, 2007, 1:06 am

Clemens
Does not travel with the team if he is not pitching.
Does not have his own lazy boy in the locker room... he has his own plane.
The man skips the offseason and early spring drug tests by retiring every year, this would be about optimum for getting a full 5 cycles in and still test clean.
Says he is going to bean players before a game... does it and is not suspended.

Say what you want, he gets way too free a pass

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » May 8, 2007, 4:28 am

Rest assured that something is probably wrong with his testicles.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » May 8, 2007, 11:44 am

Chidoro wrote:I actually hate that Clemens is coming back except to prevent him from going to Boston. Other than that, it irritates me that they are buying in again. They were beginning to slowly (very slowly) get away from that

Heh, I'm glad Boston didn't get him, and I'm a Boston fan.

Don't get me wrong, Clemens is a HoF pitcher, but I think he's more hassle than he's worth. I also think he's a fucking prick, but that's not really relevant.

Anyways, I really do hope he works out for ya, but if he doesn't...I won't be surprised either.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » May 8, 2007, 3:55 pm

According to ESPN, when DeSalvo took the mound last night, the Yankees broke a record by having 10 different starting pitchers in one season and they're not even halfway through May yet. The kid actually did pretty well. I only caught the 3rd and 4th innings but the box was impressive. Sucks they couldn't give him a win out of it.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » May 8, 2007, 4:11 pm

Clemens is a huge waste of money this season.

Nice deal for Clemens.

Canoe · Post by **Canoe** » May 8, 2007, 4:26 pm

Chidoro wrote:According to ESPN, when DeSalvo took the mound last night, the Yankees broke a record by having 10 different starting pitchers in one season and they're not even halfway through May yet. The kid actually did pretty well. I only caught the 3rd and 4th innings but the box was impressive. Sucks they couldn't give him a win out of it.

I believe the record is having 10 different starting pitchers in their first 30 games.

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » December 14, 2007, 3:15 am

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » December 14, 2007, 12:48 pm

Good call Pherr!

I'm glad that the public will finally recognize the obvious here.

It's fucking EMBARASSING that Barry Bonds is completely reviled and his records are completely discredited, while Roger Clemens has gotten a free pass for years. While Barry has been the subject of federal investigation and slammed in full-length books and blackballed by most teams and hated by most fans, Roger has been prancing around OBVIOUSLY roiding for nearly a decade and no one seems to give a shit. Instead of the skeptical and venom-filled words directed toward Barry, people write articles about Roger arguing that he's the best pitcher of all time and expressing just how amazing it is that he's managed to pitch at such a high level at such an old age-- gosh his workout regimen really is amazing, huh guys?

FUCK Roger Clemens. The dude is a bigger piece of shit than Barry Bonds. When Dan Duquette told Roger that he was washed up, he was right. Roger preserved his career for YEARS with steroids. Then, when he slipped far enough that he couldn't even use steroids to put together a full season, he started this will-i-or-won't-i bullshit, most likely juicing up during the early parts of the season when he wasn't subject to any oversight, and then watching baseball teams HUMILIATE themselves by clamoring to pay him absurdly exorbitant contracts for a half-season of roid performance. What a FUCKING JOKE. The man transformed himself from a good pitcher with a decent shot at the hall of fame to one of the "best pitchers of all time" (my ass) to a man who embarassed himself and the sport.

And how about some of those executives showing some real balls, huh? How about those Yankees execs who had at least 22 juicers on their team, from Knoblauch to Stanton to Clemens to Pettite to Giambi to Sheffield? How about Theo Epstein, voicing doubts about whether Gagne was a juicer and then signing him one year later? How about Brian Sabean, being warned that Barry's trainers were bringing steroids into the clubhouse, doing nothing, and explaining that he didn't want to disrupt 'clubhouse culture?' Bang-up job guys.

How do you all think that this affects the Hall of Fame? Personally, I've never been a fan of excluding guys for being assholes. My feeling is that the Hall of Fame is first and foremost a historical museum and secondly a reward for outstanding players, and that players who were significant enough to the game should be in, regardless of whether they're cocksuckers or not. So I support Joe Jackson and Pete Rose being in the Hall. I don't think that the steroids issue should be ignored, though-- it's absolutely NOT the case that, since we can't know exactly who did what when, the best we can do is just ignore it and pretend it never happened. Guys who are borderline Hall of Famers and clear roiders should be kept out, and guys who are borderline Hall of Famers and clearly NOT roiders should be welcomed. I wouldn't even mind if all roiders were excluded, although there should certainly be a substantial exhibit discussing them.

Guys who should NOT make the Hall of Fame:
Jason Giambi (probably obvious anyway)
Gary Sheffield
Andy Pettite (probably obvious anyway)
David Justice (probably obvious anyway)
Mo Vaughn
Miguel Tejada
Kevin Brown (definitely obvious anyway)
Eric Gagne (definitely obvious anyway)
Rafael Palmeiro
Matt Williams (probably obvious anyway)

Guys who I'm unsure about:
Mark McGwire
Sammy Sosa - Would they have been great enough to make it, roid-free? I don't know. They were better with roids than anyone on the above list, and they were incredibly significant in baseball history. Of course, a large part of that significance is directly linked to roids, so maybe it's better to just say fuck them.

Jose Canseco - Hey, he would have been a borderline candidate if he wasn't a roiding asshole. Now that he's the only guy with any credibility, and the guy who was responsible for jump-starting the end of the steroids era, perhaps he should get some more credit.

Guys who look an awful lot better now:
Frank Thomas - no allegations he's ever roided, took strong anti-roid stance, testifying in front of Congress and breaking union ranks to talk to Mitchell. Will end up with 2,500 hits, 500 homers, 500 doubles and 2 MVP's without roiding. On the all-time top 20 lists for OPS, Slugging, RBI's, etc. Would be about 3-5 spots higher on all of those lists if the roiding assholes in front of him had not roided. An obvious Hall of Famer. Frank can also be taken to represent all the other great hitters who weren't quite as great once they started pulling well into their 30's-- turns out that this is normal. Ken Griffey Jr., Vladimir Guerrero, Manny Ramirez and others look much better now.

Greg Maddux and Pedro Martinez - the true best pitchers of their generation

Albert Pujols, Ryan Howard, David Wright, Prince Fielder, and the generation of rising, clean, great players-- can't wait for them to push out Sheffield and his buddies. Reserve a special 'fuck you' for Jack Cust in this spot. And let's hope that baseball can get with the testing enough to make/keep them clean in the future.

The Big Question:
Alex Rodriguez-- is he clean???

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » December 14, 2007, 1:10 pm

I was listening to some sports radio on the way in this morning, and they brought up some good points. One big one was around the reason that there were so many Yankee players named being due to the fact that it was mainly people in/around the Yankee organization and New York that were busted. That doesn't make ANY team "cleaner" than New York. These were just the players named. This was not a list of who is, or is not, clean. Also, how far back can you say that this was going on? Nobody, besides the players involved, can say for sure that this type of activity was not happening 20+ years go, or that it will happen in 20+ years. Should records and such be disregarded for a juiced pitcher that pitched to juiced batters or batters vs pitchers?

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » December 14, 2007, 1:23 pm

They sure talked a lot about injecting things into Mr Clemens buttocks. I was neutral on Roger until he chucked the bat shard at Piazza in a fit of roid rage.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » December 14, 2007, 1:33 pm

Boog wrote:I was listening to some sports radio on the way in this morning, and they brought up some good points. One big one was around the reason that there were so many Yankee players named being due to the fact that it was mainly people in/around the Yankee organization and New York that were busted. That doesn't make ANY team "cleaner" than New York. These were just the players named.

It DOES make New York a dirty team.
It does NOT necessarily make New York dirtier than anyone else.

Boog wrote:Also, how far back can you say that this was going on? Nobody, besides the players involved, can say for sure that this type of activity was not happening 20+ years go, or that it will happen in 20+ years.

Who knows exactly, but it seems like the mid to late 80's.
Rigorous drug-testing programs can't eliminate cheating, but they can certainly ensure that we never see an era like this again. This wasn't just isolated issues around the margins-- this was a fundamental problem.

Boog wrote:Should records and such be disregarded for a juiced pitcher that pitched to juiced batters or batters vs pitchers?

Disregarded? No. Viewed differently? Absolutely. Why? Plenty of reasons.

1. Not everybody was juicing. If you're juicing, and 20% of the people you pitch to are juicing and 80% are not, you STILL HAVE A MAJOR ADVANTAGE.
2. Steroids can add years to your career. The career numbers of guys like Bonds and Clemens would look a lot different if you cut them off five years ago.
3. Steroids make you have better numbers, regardless of whether other players are juicing. This is just obvious. No one has ever hit more than 61 home runs in a season without steroids, there have been six season, including one of 73, with steroids. The top-ten list for career home runs contains FOUR roiders (Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, Palmeiro). Clemens was (approximately) 6-6 with the Jays when he's first fingered as using steroids, he went 14-0, 2.29 the rest of the season. The examples go on indefinitely.

Lynks · Post by **Lynks** » December 14, 2007, 4:12 pm

Frank Thomas was my idol when I was 12 years old. He still is.

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » December 14, 2007, 4:17 pm

Lynks wrote:Frank Thomas was my idol when I was 12 years old. He still is.

Cause he was the only person in the union to voluntarily cooperate with Mitchell?

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » December 14, 2007, 4:20 pm

Frank Thomas was my favorite childhood player, too.

I'm actually really happy that most of my favorite players (Frank Thomas, Vlad Guerrero, Pedro Martinez, all Phillies especially Howard Rollins and Utley) seem to be clean. And that players I hate, like Roger Clemens, are not. The only one of my guys who took a hit here was Lenny Dykstra.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » December 14, 2007, 4:46 pm

I knew there were going to be some Mets players, since the clubhouse batboydude was implicated.

Surprises:
Dykstra
Hundley

Not-so-surprising:
Mo Vaughn

Borderline:
LoDuca - I would never have thought until last season when he went apeshit on that ump.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » December 14, 2007, 7:45 pm

Lynks wrote:Frank Thomas was my idol when I was 12 years old. He still is.

Kirby Puckett for me

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » December 14, 2007, 7:48 pm

From Bill Simmons latest mailbag:

"The greatest hitter and pitcher of the past 50 years both cheated to get where they were ... and if that's not enough, our all-time hits leader was a convicted felon who bet against his own team. Ladies and gentleman, America's pastime!"

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/st ... ll_simmons

Vetiria · Post by **Vetiria** » December 14, 2007, 8:02 pm

Sueven wrote:Albert Pujols, Ryan Howard, David Wright, Prince Fielder, and the generation of rising, clean, great players

Just because they're new doesn't mean they're clean. This stuff is all available to minor league players too. Ever find it suspicious that a player can last until the 12th round of the draft (drafted out of a community college), then just 2 years later can be one of the best players in baseball? Keep in mind he was a teammate of Mark McGwire.

Until they start testing for HGH, there's no way I can say that any player is clean. Nor will I say that any player cheats without proof. Every single one of them is under suspicion.

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » December 14, 2007, 8:06 pm

Vetiria wrote: Ever find it suspicious that a player can last until the 12th round of the draft (drafted out of a community college), then just 2 years later can be one of the best players in baseball? Keep in mind he was a teammate of Mark McGwire.

No, because this happens in all sports, and happened before the steroids era. Am I surprised when it happens on an individual basis? Absolutely. For the cookie cutter example, take Tom Brady.

Edit: are you any more shocked when someone who goes in the 1st round is terrible?, seems like a parallel example to me. So what I am saying is that scouts are wrong sometimes.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » December 14, 2007, 8:09 pm

Sure, you can't be totally sure that anybody's clean. I agree with that.

But you can be more or less sure with different guys. The fact that you can't prove or disprove something completely doesn't mean you can't have a legitimate opinion as to how likely it is that something happened.

Trek · Post by **Trek** » December 15, 2007, 2:16 am

Unfortunately steroids probably 'saved' baseball. Most people dont like baseball without the HR's and studly pitching performance. I am not one of those people. I am not sure where baseball would be if steroids where not used. It would be better for me, but I am probably in the minority really.

I do find many of the names on that list pathetic as they totally sucked anyways, so I can imagine what they where if they didnt juice up.

I would really like to be pissed at the players, but I cant be, your talking about millions of dollars if you juice vs a potential career in the minors for most of those guys.

I could swear I mentioned in a thread someplace that Roger only pitched half a season so he could get a second steroid cycle in and test clean........but I dont remember where and I dont want to search

Spang · Post by **Spang** » December 15, 2007, 2:41 am

I wish I could cheat and make millions of dollars, and after getting caught, retire with all those millions.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » December 15, 2007, 5:29 am

Trek wrote: I could swear I mentioned in a thread someplace that Roger only pitched half a season so he could get a second steroid cycle in and test clean........but I dont remember where and I dont want to search

This thread, this page, by Pherr.

Trek · Post by **Trek** » December 15, 2007, 11:18 am

Truant wrote:
Trek wrote: I could swear I mentioned in a thread someplace that Roger only pitched half a season so he could get a second steroid cycle in and test clean........but I dont remember where and I dont want to search
This thread, this page, by Pherr.

heh I see that, but this was back when he (Roger) first started the pitching half a season thing. But I never did mention it, so there you go.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » December 15, 2007, 2:33 pm

Ahh. I don't remember a different one. I had a similar itch when this thread was bumped, but mine was for the Pherr post referrenced above.

Trek · Post by **Trek** » December 15, 2007, 2:47 pm

I think it was in one of my sim-baseball leagues I was in. Doesnt really matter but I felt like typing in this thread again!

Vetiria · Post by **Vetiria** » December 15, 2007, 7:49 pm

Pettitte now admits to using HGH in 2002. I would think Clemens' admittal should be coming soon.

Trek · Post by **Trek** » December 15, 2007, 8:27 pm

Vetiria wrote:Pettitte now admits to using HGH in 2002. I would think Clemens' admittal should be coming soon.

Unless they have something good on Roger I would be very suprised if he didnt fight it to the end.

I find it amuzing how most everyone that admits to it now only did it 1 or 2 times 5 or 6 years ago. I mean really, how many of you think these guys only used it once? I wish everyone would just come clean so baseball can move on, this is going to drag on forever and pretty much kill my interest in baseball most likely

Fash · Post by **Fash** » December 17, 2007, 3:53 pm

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5384407.html

The Texas High School Baseball Coaches Association will hold an executive meeting on Tuesday, where it is expected they will remove pitcher Roger Clemens as its keynote speaker at next month's convention in Waco.

"Nothing is final, but we will be meeting in regards to the issue," said Brenham head coach Jim Long, who serves as president of the THSBCA. "We would like to talk with Roger, and then decide on a course of action from there."

While a final decision has not been made, Clemens -- who was to speak on Jan. 12 -- has been removed from THSBCA's website, where he was scheduled to speak at 11 a.m.

Clemens, who pitched with the Astros from 2004-06, was part of the Mitchell Report, where it was alleged that he used performance enhancing drugs. The topic of his speech to the THSBCA was "My vigorous workout, how I played so long (in professional baseball)."

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » December 17, 2007, 8:34 pm

I did not check the years for the Yankee players getting caught, but I wonder if one of the reasons the Yankees have so many players on the list is there penchant for finding the hottest player of the previous year and signing them to stupid contracts?

If a guy juiced, had a career year, there was a fair chance the Yankees were after him the next year. I am sure in many cases they knew he was juicing though.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » December 17, 2007, 10:29 pm

From what it sounded like to me, the problems documented in New York came with the trainer/doctor that was giving the substances to athletes getting hired by them. He was also one of the few that actually gave info about what took place which is why I commented before about the reason no team should be seen as "cleaner" than the Yankees based on this report.

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » December 17, 2007, 10:40 pm

I have been pretty out of it, so have not seen much of the news lately. Just seemed a logical reason for the high numbers of Yankees. Thanks for the information.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » December 17, 2007, 10:51 pm

I think that Boog is right, but Tyek's point has some truth to it also-- Jason Giambi is definitely an example of the Yankees pursuing a juicer at his peak value.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » December 21, 2007, 1:58 pm

The most retarded thing in the world is Giambi winning Comeback Player of the Year Award after admitting to 'roid use.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 8, 2008, 11:30 pm

The more pictures I see of Roger Clemen's head, the more it looks like Barry Bond's huge pumpkin head.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 13, 2008, 9:12 pm

Roger Clemen's dog:

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » April 29, 2008, 7:46 pm

Heh, google the lady Clemens was cheating on his wife with:

http://images.google.com/images?q=Mindy%20McCready

Mugs shots!

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » April 29, 2008, 8:00 pm

The Clemens story has officially jumped the shark.

Xyphir · Post by **Xyphir** » May 5, 2008, 12:09 pm

It's ok, he apologized... not for the alleged affair or for allegedly doping, but he's sorry for the mistakes he's made.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » May 5, 2008, 1:00 pm

He must have taken notes from Giambi....

I'm so sorry! omgsorry! Sooo soo sorry!

"About what?"

I am just so sorry!!! crycrycry

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » May 5, 2008, 2:06 pm

I too would like to apologize for some non-specific action that may or may not have occurred sometime in the past. I hope everyone will find it in their hearts to forgive me for the action that may have, or may not have happened and will take steps to make sure this might not potentially occur in the future, and by saying potentially I am not suggesting that I have previously done this...thank you.

Xyphir · Post by **Xyphir** » September 8, 2008, 1:32 am

I was watching Kingpin last night and noticed for the first time that Roger Clemens has a cameo on this movie. Did anyone else catch this?

Post by **Sylvus** » September 8, 2008, 11:28 am

Xyphir wrote:I was watching Kingpin last night and noticed for the first time that Roger Clemens has a cameo on this movie. Did anyone else catch this?

Kick his ass, sea bass!

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » September 8, 2008, 12:01 pm

that is from Dumb and Dumber....

Post by **Sylvus** » September 8, 2008, 12:11 pm

Oh yeah. Sorry...

"Take that you freaky piece of shit. You don't mow another man's lawn!"

It was in the fight scene, wasn't it? I'm getting my Farrelly Brothers movies mixed up.