2.3.2 live

[cadalano]

http://www.worldofraids.com/#10045



New spec for teh Boxer:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZhfV0bVZxMe0MGRoeot


I will severely miss AR and Mace Stun.. but hello Enveloping Shadows and Shadowstep!

[Morgrym]

Just wondering, do you use a dagger main hand with a shadow step build or do you just take the bonus damage on a SS?

I typically play a druid but have a little 56 Rogue that I may dust off for some PvP.

[cadalano]

resilience makes daggers pretty useless in pvp aside from mutilate and all i do is arena. the extra damage goes to hemo but the main value of shs is mobility

[Morgrym]

Figured as much. So, do you go with the most heavy hitting thing you have in the main hand and fastest non dagger in the off hand? Clearly I am a rogue noob and I would much rather ask one of the best PvP rogues I know instead of the morons on the other boards.

[cadalano]

as far as hemo goes, you want the highest damage range possible in your main hand for obvious reasons. Speed used to matter a lot more for hemo because it wasnt normalized, but it has since been. So higher damage ranges naturally lend themselves to slow weapons but a 2.7 will not by default be superior to a 2.6... its just a lot more likely to be depending on the DPS

for offhand its the exact opposite.. damage range is totally meaningless. faster weapon speed on the offhand decreases shiv price and increases proc rate on potency, poisons, and whatever other shit you might have. the only time you would want a slow offhand is if you're mutilate in an instagib oriented arena team. there's also no reason you wouldnt want a dagger.. if the stats are right it doesnt matter what weapon type it is unless youre using Mutilate or a weapon specialization.

[Aardor]

What spec are you going now on the rogue? I am leveling a rogue for pvp, and I am curious. It seems to me that hemo/ar/prep is still a really good pvp build, but full combat might be better now.

[Truant]

What spec are you going now on the rogue? I am leveling a rogue for pvp, and I am curious. It seems to me that hemo/ar/prep is still a really good pvp build, but full combat might be better now.

He posted his new spec in the first post of the thread.

[cadalano]

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZhfV0bVZxMe0MGRoeot


i'm going with that


I only 5v5 on my druid and shaman these days, since 4 DPS teams get eaten alive by the abundant triple healer compositions. So I'm speccing my rogue for my 3s team (rog war priest). The warrior is mace specced. Having 2 sources of Mace stun makes it less powerful overall, so losing it doesnt hurt my 3v3 as much. Our frontloaded damage will suffer a lot with me losing AR and BF, but its getting more and more rare that we manage to burn a target down within the first 30 seconds of the fight like we used to be able to. Shadowstep will be invaluable after the first minute or so when all of my cooldowns have been blown. Its an enormous threat for mages and druids and a large amount of 3v3 compositions bring one of those classes

its all pretty straightforward though- each spec has different strengths and weaknesses in 4 areas.. burst, sustain, mobility, and utility. each one of them is just as strong situationally

full combat is the best sustain, high burst.. low mobility/utility
mut is the best burst, high utility.. decent sustain, but the worst mobility
new HARP is high mobility, high burst.. decent utility, but worst sustain
shs is highest mobility, high sustain.. decent utility, but worst burst

the most balanced is probably a triple spec.. taking Prep and DD in sub, weapon spec in combat.. and going 11ish points into assass. High mobility, higher sustain than ShS but lower than combat, decent utility, low burst

[Aardor]

Thanks for the summary!

[Cotto]

Hmm mages get Ice Block as standard now. Could make goin full fire spec better as you still have that survivability.

[Aardor]

Hmm mages get Ice Block as standard now. Could make goin full fire spec better as you still have that survivability.

for pvp? It certainly makes fire spec more viable, but icy veins, cold snap, water elemental and ice barrier are just better than what fire has to offer, pvp wise.

[Psyloche]

Hmm mages get Ice Block as standard now. Could make goin full fire spec better as you still have that survivability.

for pvp? It certainly makes fire spec more viable, but icy veins, cold snap, water elemental and ice barrier are just better than what fire has to offer, pvp wise.

The only thing that has gotten me a few times that a fire mage can do is the random impact stuns at unlucky times and dragon's breath (not many fire mages seem to time it right and just blow this at a stupid time). I recently swapped over from a Shadow Spec to Discipline to try it out in a PMR (original, I know). So it's kind of fun now to try healing, but the bad part is I have 2/5 S2, 3/5 S3, S1 MH, S3 OH, almost full veteran's/vindi of DPS gear. The funny side effect is I sometimes get to use the Blast/Death combo and it still puts out ok Damage when we time a PI'd Shatter and Rogue finisher.

We'll see how far we go before I really start feeling the pain of not having near as much +Healing as other healers. Our team runs HARP Rogue, Ice Mage and Disc Priest and so far we've only lost to the guys who also have the 4th best 5v5 in our Battlegroup.

Edit: Ice Block is almost a none-factor to me since I have .5 second MD which even with a Rogue on me in one game didn't make a difference, but like I said, we'll see how it goes the higher up we get. Right now we've only got 1 night of games going 13-2 @ 1680 scrubs before I had to log.

[cadalano]

WE will still be king

[Aardor]

Good post by Ming: http://www.gameriot.com/blogs/World-of- ... eaknesses/

Also talks about mages going AP/Pyro for 2 v 2, will have to see how it does!

[cadalano]

ming is full of shit. all he cares about is getting as many people as possible to read his garbage. people who have no idea that hes an idiot eat it up and think its brilliant, people that know hes an idiot read it just to watch the trainwreck.. winner!



also the paramount reason that AP/POM is a complete fucking joke is that shatter combos do more damage and are completely repeatable. hes just totally fucking clueless

[Sargeras]

I'd have to agree with the part about Ming. I played with him in beta and he was absolutely horrible. His "accomplished" beta PVP videos are of him ganking 60-62's in Hellfire using a flying mount. I kicked his ass though.

Some bandwidth, a host, and lots of free time and he proclaims himself to be the spokesperson for all rogues. Such a waste of space imo.

2.3.2 brought two more ret buffs, and I have to say it's finally nice to use max rank SoCommand on a consistent basis with my new mana return.

[cadalano]

my 3v3 composition is more or less toast.. we ran priest warrior rogue and it was definitely a disadvantaged composition to being with.. priests should never be in a pure healing role.. but we 100% banked on the ridiculous uncontrollable burst we could put out for the first minute or so and snag a kill on almost any team that didnt have a paladin or great CC.

So I'm switching to my druid on that team and we're running warrior priest druid. Its definitely a change of pace. I'm sticking my rogue in 2v2 with a disc priest as shadowstep, where its actually not bad.. but we can only play early in the morning when the queue times arent horrible

oh well, at least i got my shoulders before they nerfed rogues to shit!

[Psyloche]

What rating range were you running into problems with the war/rog/priest? You said Priests shouldn't ever be in a strictly healing role so maybe I misunderstand a disc priests role in the PMR setups. In ours I'm usually dispelling the first focus target, standing near their healer for when sheep breaks to fear, and when needed tossing shield, PoM, renew and always keeping a trigger finger on MD for bubbles/ice block. Also MC on maps where it can easily out LoS a healer or pull a melee off my group members. Sometimes I find it a bit overwhelming with how many possible things I could be doing as a disc priest. I'm also convert from Shadow though, so maybe I'm just not used to it yet. Unfortunately I have 5/5, MH, OH, belt, boot, bracer DPS pvp gear and in a disc healing spec now ><

[cadalano]

we were 2030 until the patch, tanked 150 points tuesday and stopped using the rogue. PMR is a lot different than what we do.. in PMR the priest is not targeted too often because the mage and rogue need to be controlled and they will just peel for the priest anyway if he actually is targetted. You're free to dispell and help make the window for the KS/shatter combos.. free to and free to burn if its an outlast situation.. and even free to try a "devastating mind control". I wouldn't consider that a strictly healing role.. priests in RPM can be very offensive or very defensive depending on what the game plans of both teams are.... hence why you can feel overwhelmed as to deciding what you should be doing.

In our war/rog/pri the priest was the target virtually every game and the gameplan was basically she (the priest) keeps herself alive and supports our offense with dispells until shes OOM and then she dies if we havent won by then. our team had no CC aside from fears which are easily broken and cannot be recast.. so its basically a total burnout composition. Now with no AR its impossible to get the kill even against compositions that we were previously hard countering, notably anything with an SL/SL and druid (as long as the 3rd isnt a hunter) which were our bread and butter and more than made up the points we lost to the numerous hard counters to our comp. Despite having 2k our record was barely over a 50% ratio if i recall which is horrible. We'd lose 3 games in a row and then get all the points back and then some from nailing a high rated SL/SL druid team. I tried going combat to keep the AR and high sustain, but its just too easy to control me when its up and make me totally waste it and all of my other cooldowns (1x vanish, 1x imp sprint, 1x cloak) to try to stay on my target.. at which point I am a rogue without cooldowns, the most pathetic creature on the face of the planet. Back to shadowstep now for 2s


anyway, My point is that if youre composition puts the priest in more of a defensive situation than an offensive situation most of the time... a paladin and especially a druid will always vastly outperform a priest.



and i know what its like respeccing gear... my druid was full balance (what the fuck was i thinking?) until the last 2 weeks of S2 and I'm just now getting a respectable level of resto gear. i'm also concerned that I'm gonna have to respec my shaman to resto in the future because Ele shamans are a dying breed in a world of drain and outlast teams. knocking on wood

[Dregor Thule]

At least with WS an elemental shaman will last a lot longer than they really should be ><

[Zaelath]

About f'ing time they fixed the xmute mastery proc... I haven't had a single proc since 2.3.1 doing a xmute every day. Fuckers.