Researchers clone a monkey and get stem cells

[Canelek]

http://www.reuters.com/article/domestic ... 3720071114

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. researchers have cloned monkeys and used the resulting embryos to get valued embryonic stem cells, an important step towards being able to do the same thing in humans, they reported on Wednesday.

Shoukhrat Mitalipov and colleagues at Oregon Health & Science University said they used skin cells from monkeys to create cloned embryos, and then extracted embryonic stem cells from these days-old embryos.

This had only been done in mice before, they reported in the journal Nature. Mitalipov had given sketchy details of his work at a conference in Australia in June, but the work has now been independently verified by another team of experts.

I am glad that there continue to be advancements in this sector. Hopefully, we get a non-asshat president to further this research via proper funding. Neat stuff!

[Funkmasterr]

I think people have valid moral issues with cloning. I am very much uncomfortable with it and I couldn't be any further from religious, so I don't think your statement is fair.

[Canelek]

No, it isn't entirely fair, but I am rather partisan on this issue.

[Sylvus]

I think people have valid moral issues with cloning. I am very much uncomfortable with it and I couldn't be any further from religious, so I don't think your statement is fair.

What are those valid moral issues? Why does it make you uncomfortable?

[Animale]

The main issue I have with human cloning is that in current cloning procedures the "success" rate is quite low (as in ~1% or so attempts result in viable young). Now, this isn't a huge issue for animals as we can euthanize the critters who don't succeed, but with humans if the resulting child is horrifically wrong for whatever reason that results in a moral quandry that probably shouldn't be addressed.

An interesting aside about this issue is that at the beginning of the Bush administration a group of scientists and other scholars got together and wrote a report to the President outlining issues with cloning in regards to stem cells etc. The consensus was that cloning humans shouldn't be attempted for the reasons I outlined above. Now, this report was basically thrown in the trash by the administration, and all the committee members fired from their positions for suggesting that stem cell research be continued. So, instead of a reasoned discussion/compromise on the issue, we have ended up with a situation where everybody is afraid of touching the issue because of its political "hotness." Bah.

Animale

[Fash]

I fully 100% support cloning and stem cell research.

But... Why does the government have to fund it? Why can't private industry manage it'?.. Replace cloning/stem cells with Viagra, CPU's, Cars, etc... Why on earth is the government responsible for this?

[Canelek]

The cloning of whole humans is a rather creepy thought as well. I am all for using the science to develop stem cells, but if it entails growing a deformed baby, like some bad scifi flick....

[Ashur]

It's an extremely slippery slope, but one with great potential gain for mankind. I'm torn on this issue. I think that success will both bring benefit as well as lead to misuse of the science (read: eugenics, organ banks etc).

I'm more in favor than against it. We need to keep evolving our medical science and stem cell research hypothetically has the most promise for the areas that plague us. I know I for one would like to see things like Alzheimers, autism and other ills beaten.

[Aardor]

I fully 100% support cloning and stem cell research.

But... Why does the government have to fund it? Why can't private industry manage it'?.. Replace cloning/stem cells with Viagra, CPU's, Cars, etc... Why on earth is the government responsible for this?

Doesn't most funding for scientific ventures such as this come from the government? I seem to remember that when we went over scientific funding in a college course of mine, but I very well may be wrong. All my experiences with funding are from the private industry, but it was all related to computers, and even some of that might have been funded by the government (government gives grant to Northrop Grumman, which then gives grant to a University).

[Sylvus]

I was under the impression that they weren't going to be producing babies with the cloning. From the article, it says they hollow out an egg, trick it into thinking it was fertilized by implanting a skin cell, and then harvest stem cells from the resulting embryo. I don't know that "viability" even comes into it.

Perhaps I'm a callous individual, but I don't have any problem with them opening up a factory where they clone embryos all day and harvest anything from them that could potentially cure all kinds (every kind?) of diseases and improve the quality of life for actual human beings that live on this planet. It's not a baby until a baby shower has been held for it.

[Fash]

Doesn't most funding for scientific ventures such as this come from the government? I seem to remember that when we went over scientific funding in a college course of mine, but I very well may be wrong. All my experiences with funding are from the private industry, but it was all related to computers, and even some of that might have been funded by the government (government gives grant to Northrop Grumman, which then gives grant to a University).

It might... but why does it have to?.. If it's worth researching and it's good for mankind, don't you think private industry would be willing to invest in it?..

Investing in something automatically makes you a supporter of it. I don't see why the US Government has to come out in favor of it for it to happen, and if they don't, to be seen as evil, stupid, or ass-hatted. There are plenty of other reasons for which to see them in that light.

I was under the impression that they weren't going to be producing babies with the cloning. From the article, it says they hollow out an egg, trick it into thinking it was fertilized by implanting a skin cell, and then harvest stem cells from the resulting embryo. I don't know that "viability" even comes into it.

They aren't making babies out of it... In order to do that, they'd have to have a woman to implant it in. You're right, they're just making embryos and harvesting stem cells... There is no advanced growth involved.

[Canelek]

It's not a baby until a baby shower has been held for it.

[Funkmasterr]

I think people have valid moral issues with cloning. I am very much uncomfortable with it and I couldn't be any further from religious, so I don't think your statement is fair.

What are those valid moral issues? Why does it make you uncomfortable?

I think that the whole thing is a real slippery-slope type situation. I don't really have issues with the cloning, etc being done on animals, but what would be the natural next step, and the reason they are doing the research/cloning on animals? - to clone/get stem cells from humans.

This creeps me out on so many levels, the idea of them cloning a person is just plain wrong. I mean, where do you stop then - is this cloned person going to just be killed/kept in a coma for research? Or are we really going to clone someone and have their clone walking around? I really don't know which one disturbs me more.

Either way, how would this be moral in regard to the cloned being? Either we are making a human life and basically incarcerating it for medical research, or we are making someone who isn't going to be normal, will probably be extremely confused and awkward, and could very possibly develop mental issues.

Embryos are different, but a similar situation imo. When does life begin, I'm not sure (I'm pro choice, btw) but I do know that that same group of people (strong pro life) would have severe issues with this. I am not as creeped out about emryos as I am about actual fully developed beings, but it still just doesn't seem right to me for a lot of the same reasons..

Now when it comes to just cloning a single organ from a human, I don't have as much of an issue. I would feel weird having someone else's heart beating in my chest, but that would be no different whether it was cloned or taken from someone who died.. And I'm sure I would get over my discomfort when it was my only option to stay alive.

Does that make sense? I mean, I'm not talking down on people that don't agree with me, and I can most certainly see the benefits that could be reaped from cloning/stem cell research, but that doesn't change the way I feel about it.

Really though, you can't just say they would make embryos and that's it.. Once the floodgates are open there are going to be people (some with good intentions, some otherwise) that will want to take it to the next level, and the next level, until we are cloning the fucking president and having his clone appear in public situations so they can't be harmed (an exaggeration, but I think you probably catch my drift).

[Psyloche]

or we are making someone who isn't going to be normal, will probably be extremely confused and awkward, and could very possibly develop mental issues.

Plenty of human beings right now do this already.

Joking aside, cloning people creeps me out. I see the values of the research and what benefits it could bring, but I watched too many movies like the Island and think what a crazy world it could create.

[Boogahz]

or we are making someone who isn't going to be normal, will probably be extremely confused and awkward, and could very possibly develop mental issues.

Plenty of human beings right now do this already.

Joking aside, cloning people creeps me out. I see the values of the research and what benefits it could bring, but I watched too many movies like the Island and think what a crazy world it could create.

heck, the world is crazy enough as it is! Should we really add to our population when supporting the "human" population is virtually impossible in some areas already? The line would have to be drawn as to what is/is not a person, but we're not exactly doing a good job of that now.

[Ashur]

They aren't making babies out of it... In order to do that, they'd have to have a woman to implant it in. You're right, they're just making embryos and harvesting stem cells... There is no advanced growth involved.

And how long do you think it will take before they're doing that? It's the Underpants Gnome model!

Step 1 - Stem Cell Research
Step 2 -
Step 3 - Baby Making/Profit

[cadalano]

cloning humans would greatly increase my chances of nailing twins. and i am for this.

[Ashur]

cloning humans would greatly increase my chances of nailing twins. and i am for this.

Heck, you could nail twins of yourself...

[Canelek]

WTF kind of fetish does that fall under?

[Animale]

The reason industry isn't funding this stuff is that it is a long-term basic science field still (in general). Industry does not like to fund things that they can't see a product coming from in 5-10 years, and most of the stem cell stuff is still on the level of "can we make them at all" rather than "what disease can I treat with them." Not all, just most.

That's the problem in general with asking industry to fund academic research in all fields - the desire of industry to make a product/profit within 5-10 years. Basic science just doesn't work well that way, but if the purse strings are being held by those who demand it, it's what they'll receive. We just won't be getting anything that is innovative and new. Thus, government has an important place in funding research, as they don't have the demands of short-term profit placed upon the agencies. I'm actually afraid that the government is moving more in the "5 years to product" plan, which can only be a bad thing for our country's intellectual and technological development. Government is currently the only place where people can go to for basic science funding on a reasonable scale (and in the long run, basic science eventually CAN lead to products, which is when industrial type research can take over).

Animale

[Bagar-]

I think people have valid moral issues with cloning. I am very much uncomfortable with it and I couldn't be any further from religious, so I don't think your statement is fair.

When did anyone mention religion?

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

I think people have valid moral issues with cloning. I am very much uncomfortable with it and I couldn't be any further from religious, so I don't think your statement is fair.

When did anyone mention religion?

He did, asshole. Try reading and actually making an attempt to understand the context of a persons statement before starting in with your negative bullshit.

[Funkmasterr]

I said that because strongly religious people tend to have serious issues with this topic, and I wanted to make it clear that while I also have issues with it, it has absolutely nothing to do with religion (I was being pre-emptive, because someone would have said something about it if I had not.)

Not that I owe that fuckhead any kind of explanation..

[Sylvus]

He did, asshole. Try reading and actually making an attempt to understand the context of a persons statement before starting in with your negative bullshit.

Um...

I am glad that there continue to be advancements in this sector. Hopefully, we get a non-asshat president to further this research via proper funding. Neat stuff!

I think people have valid moral issues with cloning. I am very much uncomfortable with it and I couldn't be any further from religious, so I don't think your statement is fair.

That is the commentary on this thread - in its entirety - at the point that funk wrote that. "I'm not religious, and don't think your statement is fair" tends to imply that Canelek had said something about religion, which he clearly did not.

I realize Bagar rubbed you both the wrong way from the beginning, but please try to heed your own advice. Understand the context of what Bagar wrote before coming in and calling him an asshole and being generally negative. "When did anyone mention religion?" is pretty far from being negative, both in the real world and particularly in this forum.

[Funkmasterr]

He did, asshole. Try reading and actually making an attempt to understand the context of a persons statement before starting in with your negative bullshit.

Um...

I am glad that there continue to be advancements in this sector. Hopefully, we get a non-asshat president to further this research via proper funding. Neat stuff!

I think people have valid moral issues with cloning. I am very much uncomfortable with it and I couldn't be any further from religious, so I don't think your statement is fair.

That is the commentary on this thread - in its entirety - at the point that funk wrote that. "I'm not religious, and don't think your statement is fair" tends to imply that Canelek had said something about religion, which he clearly did not.

I realize Bagar rubbed you both the wrong way from the beginning, but please try to heed your own advice. Understand the context of what Bagar wrote before coming in and calling him an asshole and being generally negative. "When did anyone mention religion?" is pretty far from being negative, both in the real world and particularly in this forum.

Incorrect, anyone with the ability to use deductive logic at the level of a 5 year old would have understood what I was getting at in my first post, without needing the explanation I posted a few minutes ago.

[Abelard]

This is great!
I can't wait till I'm able to clone myself and raise myself as my own son!
Woo.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Seriously, I think it would be great to help the medical community come up with cures and create pieces of or whole organs.

Jokingly, but really kind of seriously, I want to be able to have my own Eva Mendez clone at home that I could fuck everyday.

[Abelard]

Eva Mendez clones for all!

[Nick]

Eva Mendez clones for all!