Global warming?

[Funkmasterr]

So your now relying on semantics to try and worm out of "not acknowledging global warming"?

I told you I acknowledge the Earth's process is occurring (multiple times), I also explained why I don't think we are having as big of an impact on this process as people are assuming. So what exactly is it that I haven't covered for you? I think it really boils down to a few issues with you:

1- you have the reading comprehension skills of a newborn monkey

2- the thought of something you believe in being wrong is something you dismiss immediately

3- you get enjoyment out of spinning what people say to mean what you want it to mean (you might actually make a good politician.

Same tired old bullshit. I've tried explaining to you why you're wrong, you are current personification of point 2.

However, feel free to dismiss the other part of the post (the bit with the link) that highlights how ridiculous you sound to anyone with even the vaguest clue of the issue at hand.

So are you saying that everyone else that disagrees with you as well has no idea about the issue at hand?

[Nick]

Stop running from the issue you pussy.

So are you saying that everyone else that disagrees with you as well has no idea about the issue at hand?

You made some assertions based on nothing, I pointed this out by showing you some evidence that you are obviously absolutely fucking terrified of acknowledging, and you're desperately looking to derail as quickly as possible by coming in with the usual "you can never admit you're wrong" spiel, which is pretty ironic, given the circumstances.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Stop running from the issue you pussy.

So are you saying that everyone else that disagrees with you as well has no idea about the issue at hand?

You made some assertions based on nothing, I pointed this out by showing you some evidence that you are obviously absolutely fucking terrified of acknowledging, and you're desperately looking to derail as quickly as possible by coming in with the usual "you can never admit you're wrong" spiel, which is pretty ironic, given the circumstances.

*waves at the pot, but the pot is busy calling the kettle black*....racist pot.

[Funkmasterr]

Dude, there is no PROOF that we are doing anything to speed this process up. PROOF, just like I asked for earlier and no one could provide. YOUR OPINION is that the evidence you have read strongly supports that we are, MY OPINION is that from the various shows I have seen and articles I have read about Earth and ice ages is that this is just a natural occurring cycle, and nothing we are doing is significantly speeding this process up.

Again, you have NO PROOF that I am wrong, so keep calling me ignorant and a moron, but the fact is you are the one being a fucking idiot here.

[Nick]

Stop running from the issue you pussy.

So are you saying that everyone else that disagrees with you as well has no idea about the issue at hand?

You made some assertions based on nothing, I pointed this out by showing you some evidence that you are obviously absolutely fucking terrified of acknowledging, and you're desperately looking to derail as quickly as possible by coming in with the usual "you can never admit you're wrong" spiel, which is pretty ironic, given the circumstances.

*waves at the pot, but the pot is busy calling the kettle black*....racist pot.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Haha. Good one Nick. Never saw that one before.

[Nick]

thx

[Zaelath]

Dude, there is no PROOF that we are doing anything to speed this process up. PROOF, just like I asked for earlier and no one could provide. YOUR OPINION is that the evidence you have read strongly supports that we are, MY OPINION is that from the various shows I have seen and articles I have read about Earth and ice ages is that this is just a natural occurring cycle, and nothing we are doing is significantly speeding this process up.

Again, you have NO PROOF that I am wrong, so keep calling me ignorant and a moron, but the fact is you are the one being a fucking idiot here.

You're absosmurfly right, there is no proof. Science rarely provides proof, centuries of adjustment to theories have shown that they can only profer their best guess at how things work based on the best evidence they can get today. However, the best guess of the majority of the scientific community is usually a lot closer to the mark than yours, which, and lets be honest, is based on wishful thinking.

[Tyek]

We need to do something, serious and immediate. Proof or not, is it really a bad thing to have more environmentally friendly services? The problem with Green Power is the technology. The space needed, the equipment needed for these ventures to become worthwhile are significant. Wind Power takes a long time to recoup its costs. One of the most interesting new concepts is wave power. Harnessing the natural tide to develop power. Whether this can be done without destroying the ecosystems near the coast is the main issue. Another option is trash. We have a trash dump in Rosemead that produces enough energy to power 60K homes.

Short of Kilmoll's really big A/C concept, we need to develop more efficient methods of energy production. I would rather see us invest in young creative companies looking for a solution then some of the stupid projects this country supports.

[Acies]

We need to do something, serious and immediate. Proof or not, is it really a bad thing to have more environmentally friendly services? The problem with Green Power is the technology. The space needed, the equipment needed for these ventures to become worthwhile are significant. Wind Power takes a long time to recoup its costs. One of the most interesting new concepts is wave power. Harnessing the natural tide to develop power. Whether this can be done without destroying the ecosystems near the coast is the main issue. Another option is trash. We have a trash dump in Rosemead that produces enough energy to power 60K homes.

Short of Kilmoll's really big A/C concept, we need to develop more efficient methods of energy production. I would rather see us invest in young creative companies looking for a solution then some of the stupid projects this country supports.

I could not agree more Tyek. Unfortunately, there are drawbacks to that plan. The people who make those changes, the people in power (at least in this country) are paid by the companies who profit from the sale of oil to make sure it does not happen. They would lose their money, after all. Hell, in the case of our present administration, they have direct ties to oil companies and profit directly. Such changes for the betterment of the world will not happen because of greed and corruption. In fact, I would be truly shocked and awed if at any point in time, our leaders and politicians actually had the needs of the world placed before their own.

[miir]

Welcome back, Acies.

[Acies]

Welcome back, Acies.

Thanks man

[Somali]

Anyone read much about chaos theory?

I suppose where I am going with that is that wind power, wave power, alternate whatever power... They all have some sort of consequence whether it is easily perceived or not. Perhaps we should go for whatever power is most readily available that has the highest efficiency rating provided it shows no [direct] impact on the objects around it.

Wave power really scares me to be honest. You seriously screwing with near land currents and there is a good potential of manipulating the gulf stream and other major currents that help to regulate temperature in various areas of the world. Doing this would have a serious affect on global climate change.

[Tyek]

someone needs to figure out how to turn shit into power. Lord knows we will never run out of that.

[Boogahz]

someone needs to figure out how to turn shit into power. Lord knows we will never run out of that.

What do you think "powered" fires in the Plains states during the mid-late 1800's and early 1900's?

[Funkmasterr]

Anyone read much about chaos theory?

I suppose where I am going with that is that wind power, wave power, alternate whatever power... They all have some sort of consequence whether it is easily perceived or not. Perhaps we should go for whatever power is most readily available that has the highest efficiency rating provided it shows no [direct] impact on the objects around it.

Wave power really scares me to be honest. You seriously screwing with near land currents and there is a good potential of manipulating the gulf stream and other major currents that help to regulate temperature in various areas of the world. Doing this would have a serious affect on global climate change.

Yeah it wasn't too long ago I watched a show on the theory of what brought about the last ice age, which was the polar caps melting, freshwater getting into the currents in the ocean and in the end causing an ice age. Kinda crazy.

[Aslanna]

Welcome back, Acies.

Thanks man

Did you come back because you heard Midnyte and Funkmasterr left or Noel and Kyoukan?


Anyway, anyone who denies global warming has their head in the sand. However the sticking point for most seems to be whether or not humans are accelerating it. Why can't we just assume we are and make changes to try and minimze the risk. Simply saying "It's going to happen anyway so what do I care?" is retarded.

[Lynks]

Thats the way I feel about it too. Personally, I'm still undecided whether or not we are increasing it. But why not improve our health/way of life simply for the sake of improving our health/way of life.

[Chmee]

I am a little late to the party but I will toss in a couple cents. First kudos to Steve McIntyre for finding the error. I have been reading his blog http://www.climateaudit.org/ for quite a while now and it is generally excellent.

Of course the correction, although not insignificant, does not eliminate warming from the record. Not even within the U.S. which is of course only a small portion of the overall global temperature (around 2% I have heard). However, the U.S. probably has one of the most complete and well maintained temperature records within the overall global record, so I certainly think the overall record could stand some more careful scrutiny as well. Not that I would expect the warming to disappear completely. The satellite record (although not as long in duration) also shows warming. Of course (at least last I heard) the amount of warming in the satellite record is slightly below that of the ground record where the models that are being used to predict future trend predict the opposite (the satellite record measures temperature for the lower troposphere, the ground record measures, well, ground temperature). So although I would not expect the warming to disappear, I do think the overall record could benefit from closer scrutiny, as occurred in this case.

[Somali]

Thats the way I feel about it too. Personally, I'm still undecided whether or not we are increasing it. But why not improve our health/way of life simply for the sake of improving our health/way of life.

I'll posit an answer with the caveat that it may not apply to the "actual" reasoning of the majority of the "let's not" party.
What if in our haste to provide a "better cleaner" solution we instead provide a solution that is far more detrimental to the environment.
Its the whole, "the devil we know" argument. While we may not have a complete understanding of how much the ~3-6% of the overall CO2 levels humans contribute impacts the environment, we have some level of estimation that people can't really agree on.
Adopting new technologies that have not had "long-term" studies to demonstrate the lasting effects, we could introduce something worse.
Nuclear power - kickass efficiency. (WTF do we do with the waste?)
Nifty new light bulbs from Wal Mart that last 7 times longer than traditional ones. Less Waste, YeeHaw! (I think they contain mercury? making them exponentially worse for the localized environment)
There are prolly a good number of others that I didn't mention. Lets compound the examples that I gave above by stating that even though we may have some long term trending information for some new products. The effect of mass manufacture and use of them is not entirely understood.

I'd argue the above is a way to stick our heads in the sand and never do anything though, so let's move on.

Now. Why don't we really make the changes? Gas and Oil companies have a shit-ton of money and are fairly effective at arguing that there is no "real" threat.

Personally I'm all for new technology but I'm not completely convinced that our CO2 or CO output is directly related to Global Warming.

On a somewhat distantly related note... Anyone read "State of Fear" yet?

[Acies]

Welcome back, Acies.

Thanks man

Did you come back because you heard Midnyte and Funkmasterr left or Noel and Kyoukan?


Anyway, anyone who denies global warming has their head in the sand. However the sticking point for most seems to be whether or not humans are accelerating it. Why can't we just assume we are and make changes to try and minimze the risk. Simply saying "It's going to happen anyway so what do I care?" is retarded.

Neither, just wanted to come back and talk with you all. And debate, of course. Though I am a bit sad that I have not seen Noel or Kyoukan yet. One of them because I like him, the other because I am facinated by how someone could get so pissy on a daily basis.

[Fash]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/zei ... 45,00.html

Norway is concerned that its national animal, the moose, is harming the climate by emitting an estimated 2,100 kilos of carbon dioxide a year through its belching and farting.

Norwegian newspapers, citing research from Norway's technical university, said a motorist would have to drive 13,000 kilometers in a car to emit as much CO2 as a moose does in a year.

lol, I blame the moose.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Fucking Americans!!!

[Somali]

I agree with Fash. Kill all the moose and we eliminate our problems with Global Warming. Oh, anyone you know that has excessive flatulence should also be terminated at the next possible occasion.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

I agree with Fash. Kill all the moose and we eliminate our problems with Global Warming. Oh, anyone you know that has excessive flatulence should also be terminated at the next possible occasion.

I better cut down on the Chinese Food then.

[Somali]

I've cut down on Chinese and increased quantities of Vietnamese and Thai. Japanese has stayed somewhat constant. Vietnamese Bun dishes are the bomb.