Getting (proper!) tough on blowjobs...

[Drolgin Steingrinder]

Full story here

Wilson was convicted of aggravated child molestation based upon an act of oral sodomy performed on him by victim T.C., which was documented on videotape and seems to show that the victim's participation in the act was voluntary. Wilson was 17 years old at the time of the act; the victim was 15 years old. Pursuant to the version of the aggravated child molestation statute then in effect, Wilson was sentenced to ten years imprisonment without possibility of parole.

[Drolgin Steingrinder]

Welcome to Georgia!

[laneela]

See http://www.veeshanvault.org/forums/view ... hp?t=19223 for my comment there...

In this case, I'd have to use self-control to keep from beating the judge.

What the fuck is going on in the world when someone is given 6 years prison term for torturing a girl for 4+ hours and someone else given 10 for receiving a consentual blowjob from someone who very well might be in one class lower than them in highschool?

[Nick]

That is retarded beyond belief.

[masteen]

By those standards, every single guy in my high school class was guilty of aggrivated child molestation.

[Zaelath]

By those standards, every single guy in my high school class was guilty of aggrivated child molestation.

Seriously, fuck him. Not only did he break the law, but he taped himself doing so. You can get consent from a 5 year old to gob your knob too, would that be young enough to outrage you? How young is too young? Who decides? What about developmentally disabled people?

A lot of people here think 14 is old enough to make decisions about sex, that's interesting, but it doesn't mean shit in Georgia (or here) and if you want to fuck children, move to Spain or something.

Part of the reason people defend the hugely disparate legal systems in the states is they can choose where they live and what laws they live under. If I was raising kids in the US I'd want to live in the state where 17 year olds preying on my 15 year old was illegal, you can move to MN where 19 year olds can sleep with your 15 year old instead.

Edit: Personally I think the stupid part of that story was it was an appeal based on Georgia changing the law after the fact to legalise blowjobs, perhaps the Clinton effect.

[masteen]

You think 15 year old girls are prey? It's not like these girls had to be eiticed into the back of the van with candy.

Also, this isn't about adults fucking children. The guy was SEVENTEEN.

I don't know about your high school, but when I was a junior, all the girls my age were dating seniors or dumbfucks who'd graduated already but didn't go to college. The only way I was getting a date was by going out with underclassmen.

I don't think that high school kids are 100% ready to be responsible sexually, they certainly need to start walking that road. IMO, giving a BJ IS being responsible. She pleased her guy without running the risk of getting preggers.

I bet you believe in abstinence based sex ed, too.

[Truant]

Zaelath...

I was younger than the girl in the story when I first had sex.

Am I a victim too?

Please help me as I'm not capable of helping myself...

Sincerely,
Truant

[kyoukan]

I would have put half the guys in my home town in prison by the time I was 16.

[Asheran Mojomaster]

Yeah, most people I know lost their viriginity between 13 and 17. Puberty changes your outlook on life quick. I've never understood laws like that...I can see if its a HUGE difference, but a few years isnt much.

[archeiron]

You can get consent from a 5 year old to gob your knob too, would that be young enough to outrage you? How young is too young? Who decides? What about developmentally disabled people?

There is a fundamental difference between a pre-pubescent child and adolescent in puberty; this is a distinction recognized by biologists, psychologists, and most parents. The term pedophilia applies to the former and is considered one of the most heinous crimes by most/all western civilizations; the term for an adult who is fits the latter is an ephebophile, which while considered a dangerous sexual predator will not be prosecuted with any special laws other than statutory rape.

Finally, a pubescent teen to be attracted to another pubescent teen is termed... perfectly normal This is a natural and socially acceptable attraction.

So to answer your questions: yes, 5 is young enough to outrage me. For an adult, any minor (pubescent or not) is too young and in any situation pre-pubescent is too young. Biology first and foremost. Developmentally disabled people are protected by diminished capacity under particular circumstances, but should also not necessarily be discriminated against as an adult.

[Markulas]

I love how the judge apologizes for her acknowledgement of realism in the case.

Hunstein added she was ‘‘very sympathetic to Wilson’s argument regarding the injustice of sentencing this promising young man with good grades and no criminal history to 10 years in prison without parole and a lifetime registration as a sexual offender because he engaged in consensual oral sex with a 15-year-old victim only two years his junior

I wonder how the girl feels

[Zaelath]

You can get consent from a 5 year old to gob your knob too, would that be young enough to outrage you? How young is too young? Who decides? What about developmentally disabled people?

There is a fundamental difference between a pre-pubescent child and adolescent in puberty; this is a distinction recognized by biologists, psychologists, and most parents. The term pedophilia applies to the former and is considered one of the most heinous crimes by most/all western civilizations; the term for an adult who is fits the latter is an ephebophile, which while considered a dangerous sexual predator will not be prosecuted with any special laws other than statutory rape.

Finally, a pubescent teen to be attracted to another pubescent teen is termed... perfectly normal This is a natural and socially acceptable attraction.

So to answer your questions: yes, 5 is young enough to outrage me. For an adult, any minor (pubescent or not) is too young and in any situation pre-pubescent is too young. Biology first and foremost. Developmentally disabled people are protected by diminished capacity under particular circumstances, but should also not necessarily be discriminated against as an adult.

I agree with most of what you say, but some of it raises more questions: eg, An adult is 18, a minor is < 18, which means they might be a day apart in age. This should be kosher should it not?

And yes, Masteen, to a 17 year old a 15 year old is prey. I don't buy this "same stage of life" shite just because they're in the same school. If he's 15 (or within 12 months of her age really) I got no problem, and I would extend that back to any age you care to name, because those kids *are* at the same stage of life. I remember the way freshmen looked at seniors and there's no argument you can muster that would convince me the senior doesn't have the upper hand.

Also, laws are a reflection of "socially acceptability", hence if it's illegal to get a BJ from a 15 year old it's not socially acceptable; it may be to you, or to the majority of the US, but apparently not in that juristiction.

[Tuddi2]

hi i'm close minded, ignorant and think we should have arranged marriges.

[Zaelath]

hi i'm close minded, ignorant and think we should have arranged marriges.

Hi, I'm a drunken fucktard, and it doesn't help my spelling, punctuation, or the quality of my arguments.

[cid]

If the seventeen was caught drinking he would lose his license, but getting his dick sucked by a fifteen year old and taping it is ok? You need to draw a line somewhere. The punishment was way overboard, but you need to start somewhere.

Parents need to be more involved in their kid’s lives. They need to talk to them about everything, know where they are and have activities which involves them.

[Nick]

Start somewhere else then. This is retarded.

[Cartalas]

hi i'm close minded, ignorant and think we should have arranged marriges.

Hi, I'm a drunken fucktard, and it doesn't help my spelling, punctuation, or the quality of my arguments.

Round 1 Winner is Tuddi2

[Tuddi2]

hi i'm close minded, ignorant and think we should have arranged marriges.

Hi, I'm a drunken fucktard, and it doesn't help my spelling, punctuation, or the quality of my arguments.

i'm not drunk
i'm not a fucktard to the best of my knowledge, i guess you disagree
spelling is something i can work on, and will do so.
punctuation is something i can work on, and will do so as well.

i had no arguement so it's quality is a mute point.

and how did you know i was talking to you, you seem very sharp, i didn't quote you or anything.

[Janx]

They ask her how many other blowjobs shes given? Shit, she may be the town bicycle.

[Truant]

Also, laws are a reflection of "socially acceptability", hence if it's illegal to get a BJ from a 15 year old it's not socially acceptable; it may be to you, or to the majority of the US, but apparently not in that juristiction.

There is at least one state where it's illegal for ADULTS to participate in oral sex iirc, and I know other sexual acts are on the books in various states.

I would say the socially acceptable argument gets tossed on that.

Throughout the history of this country, laws are not made on the will of the majority. They are made according to the will of the power holding minority. That power holding minority throughout our nation's history has come from white, wealthy, and some evangelical denomination of jesus church. (the last one varies a bit on region, but the fabulous blue laws of Texas (and many other states) are a prime example).

We had a story on here from AK I think last year about a law making it illegal to OWN a sex toy as an ADULT.

[Deward]

The difference between a 17 year old boy and a 15 year old girl is nil. Girls mature at a faster rate than boys. The act of taping it, while being stupid, is not grounds for putting the kid in jail for ten years when he had a clean record beforehand. This is just another example of the stupidity of mandatory sentencing laws. The politicians are winning because they are throwing everyone in jail.

[Vaemas]

Legislated morality anyone?

[Lalanae]

The legal system will never be a solution to kids being stupid about sex. Its all about parenting. I'm really lucky that I came out of my teens without an STD or kid in tow (although I had some "scares" relating to both). My parents took the "Don't do it or else! " stance which we all know works so well with teens . I would have benefited from some mature discussion about safety and self-respect instead of having to rely on outside influences. I was pretty aggressive sexually, almost always the instigator, but most of it did not come out of "being horny." It was an easy way to have power over a guy and became just the means to an end. I got more joy out of seeing how sex make boys weak and whiney (and even emotional) than the sex itself. Most of the sexually-active girls I knew had sex because of the power aspect, not because they just wanted to get laid.

Girls today see and hear more about sex than I did. Some of the music they listen to is very explicit about how promiscuous women "should be." It's a lot of pressure to put on someone who is trying to develop their identity and sometimes its just easier to run with it instead of fight against it. I can't imagine having to counteract these messages as a parent. It's got to be really hard.

[Arborealus]

Legislated morality anyone?

None for me thanks just the same...

[Nick]

Tourist drive '07!

[Arborealus]

We need to establish a Tourism Bureau!

[Lalanae]

Tourist drive '07!

ROFL

[Zaelath]

The difference between a 17 year old boy and a 15 year old girl is nil. Girls mature at a faster rate than boys. The act of taping it, while being stupid, is not grounds for putting the kid in jail for ten years when he had a clean record beforehand. This is just another example of the stupidity of mandatory sentencing laws. The politicians are winning because they are throwing everyone in jail.

Girls mature at a faster rate than boys. What are they, fucking produce? Besides, it's popularist bullshit if you go beyond fertility. Everyone matures emotionally at different rates.

I agree that the sentence is too harsh really, but if I lived in a state where getting a BJ from my wife was illegal, and I couldn't move, I wouldn't be taping it to show to my mates either.

As for legislating morality, we've done that for thousands of years, and it's about protecting the health of the people and their offspring. And while you can't stop all kids fucking, I won't be in the camp that makes it legal and hence acceptable.

[masteen]

Legality and acceptance don't matter. Kids are going to fuck, suck, tug, lick, rub, and/or fondle everything they can get their hands on.

The only question is do you want to prepare them with real facts about disease, pregnancy and protection options, or would you rather keep on pretending that kids will remember your bullshit "Sex is bad, mmm'kay" rhetoric when Mary Jane Rottencrotch drops her purty pink panties?

[Tinkin Tankem]

I remember the way freshmen looked at seniors and there's no argument you can muster that would convince me the senior doesn't have the upper hand.

That is the same case in a multitude of situations. People in general are susceptable to being attracted to people in power or with some authority. For instance superiors at work. When I'm at work whether it be behind the bar or on the floor. I get approached by women way more then when I'm just out. You can't say that because she was 15 she was attracted to someone older. Although I would agree that since he was an upperclassmen he had more social power and was most likely more confident. With that same idea I know there are a lot of highschool senior women or juniors for that matter that are attracted to guys that are in college; usually because "he's in college."

Ultimately there are very few circumstances where someone does not have some sort of social influence or just plusses in general. It's called attraction. It's like saying that if I find Jamie more attractive than Jill because Jamie has a degree, big boobs, a good family, a pretty smile, or any other reason. Is that wrong since I'm susceptible to those things. Just like Jane may have been attracted to guys that seem older and more mature? Maybe all of the guys in her class at school are still talking about their pet snakes and trying to figure out why their shorts are sticking to their leg when they wake up. wtf...

[Cotto]

Despite any of your arguements against this act, or the act of taping it. Destroying (and lets not gloss the issue, because thats what it is) the life of a 17 year old, by putting them in prison for 10 years, for receiving oral sex from this girl, is possibly the worst miscarriage of justice I have heard in recent times.

Bravo Judge, youve just sentenced someone to lose the last years of being a teenager and pretty much all of their 20's. Wouldnt get that long if he killed his parents would he? Noo, probably get sent somewhere to "help with is mental problems". Bet you sleep like a fuckin baby too..

[Moonwynd]

This 17 year old needed the OJ jury.

[Sueven]

Bravo Judge, youve just sentenced someone to lose the last years of being a teenager and pretty much all of their 20's. Wouldnt get that long if he killed his parents would he? Noo, probably get sent somewhere to "help with is mental problems". Bet you sleep like a fuckin baby too..

I have a question raised by this post.

My impression (without reading too carefully) is that the judge disagreed with the harshness of the sentence, but imposed it because the law required it. He could have ignored the law, but he probably feels that obedience to the law is more important than achieving just results in particular, exceptional cases.

So: Do those who think that this is an unjust result believe that the judge ought to have disobeyed the law? In other words, is this the fault of the judge who imposed the sentence or the legislature who drafted the sentencing guidelines? In general, what is more important: achieving just results and furthering sensible policy aims in particular cases, or maintaining the structure and integrity of the rule of law?

I ask because, in situations like this, judges and lawyers are decried for the injustice they wreak on society. However, when judges DO ignore law in order to achieve just results of policy aims, they're decried for being 'activist judges' and 'legislating from the bench' and so on. There's definitely an anti-legal system bias in the country (understandable), which seems to lead to intellectual hypocrisy on behalf of some judicial critics.

So, given a choice between: 1), a judge attempting to achieve the best results in the cases presented to him, and 2), a judge attempting to follow the established rules as closely as possible, which would be preferable?

[Leonaerd]

So, given a choice between: 1), a judge attempting to achieve the best results in the cases presented to him, and 2), a judge attempting to follow the established rules as closely as possible, which would be preferable?

I'd say that since a lot of the rules established are batshit insane, a judge should have some moral weight over what happens. But that's an arbitrary lesser-of-two-evils option. I'd rather see the laws changed so that something like what happened to this 17 year old isn't legal.

[Nick]

1), a judge attempting to achieve the best results in the cases presented to him, and 2), a judge attempting to follow the established rules as closely as possible, which would be preferable?

Number 1 obviously. This sentence diminishes the integrity of the law more than anything.

[Kelshara]

The difference between a 17 year old boy and a 15 year old girl is nil. Girls mature at a faster rate than boys.

Every single research I have seen back home supports this.

This is just another example of how fucking stupid American courts are. Laughable.

[Soreali]

See the thing that aggrevates me about this ruling is that a fucking pedophile gets what, a year probation because the judge felt that because he was 5 foot nothing that sentencing him to prison time would be cruel.. yet a kid gets a BJ from a girl two years younger than him, while he's in high school and gets 10 years behind bars? what kind of crap is that?

[kyoukan]

who got a year for molesting a kid?

[Boogahz]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/06/11/teen.s ... index.html

Code: Select all

ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN) -- Prosecutors filed a notice of appeal on Monday in the case of Genarlow Wilson, blocking him from being released from prison, his attorney B.J. Bernstein said. 

Wilson is serving a 10-year prison sentence for a sexual encounter with a 15-year-old girl that occurred when he was 17.

Earlier in the day, a judge in Monroe County, Georgia, voided that sentence and said Wilson should be released.

The judge ruled Wilson could serve one year, less than he has already served, and that he would not be listed as a sex offender.

Wilson's attorney, B.J. Bernstein, cheered, screamed with delight, and hugged Wilson's mother, Juannessa Bennett, as she read the judge's decision. (Watch Wilson's mom, lawyer's tearful reaction to the judge's ruling)

"I just feel like a miracle happened," said Bennett.

"He didn't deserve to have the sexual predator status," she said.

The original sentence had demanded Wilson be listed on a sex offender registry.

The Georgia Legislature has since altered the law to make such an act a misdemeanor punishable only by up to one year in prison, with no sex offender registration. But the change was not retroactive, which meant Wilson remained in jail.

Bernstein, speaking to reporters, pleaded with prosecutors to give up their fight to keep the sentence against the young man and allow him to be freed immediately.

"This has been a really long 28 months," Bernstein said tearfully. "It's a very long fight. And right now we have an order of release. And I beg the attorney general of the state of Georgia: please, enough. Do not file an appeal, please. Because we have an order of release right now for a young man that I think most everybody in the community believes should not be in prison."

She added, "Please, please, enough."

Bernstein had argued the original punishment was cruel and unusual, in violation of the Constitution. She said the judge, in his decision, agreed the punishment was unconstitutional.

[Asheran Mojomaster]

Holy shit? Hes beein in for 28 months already? They better let him the fuck out asap...poor guy, his life is going to be crazy when he gets out. Missed the end of high school. I wonder if he will go to college now? I wonder what prison was like (well Juvenile for the first year, but I am guessing he was swapped over to prison after that) for him. Did he have to give any blowjobs?

[Fairweather Pure]

His attorney's name is B.J. That's just awesome.

[Kaldaur]

I'm glad to hear he's getting out. I remember that 60 minutes interviewed him, or some similar news show, and he was a very nice guy who got screwed over by a shitty law from a backwards piece of legislation.

[masteen]

I can't believe the Georgia AG filed an appeal for a sentence that would not be handed out today. Fucking asshole is just trying to look "tough on crime" when really he's just fucking up the life of this kid to fucking grandstand.

p.s. If that kid was white, no way in hell would this have even gotten to trial, much less stuck the poor guy in jail for 2.5 years (and counting).

[Xyun]

totally agree. This state is so bucking fackwards it makes me sick to even be here. This kid was actually a good running back in high school and had interviewed with some top colleges before all this shit happened to him. He's black, the girl who blew him is white and that is the ONLY reason he's been in jail for over 2 years.

[Hesten]

He was lucky he didnt just get the chair.

[Sylvos]

I would have put half the guys in my home town in prison by the time I was 16.

How YOU doin!