HD Format War is officially over.. Toshiba quits. See page

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » January 9, 2008, 4:18 am

Rumor has it that Paramount/Dreamworks is poised to drop HD DVD exclusive. If so, Universal would be the last major player supporting the format. Paramount claims to still be supporting the format, but announced no new titles at CES. Apparently, the lawyers have been going over thier options since they have an escape clause with Toshiba.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » January 9, 2008, 4:24 am

Seems my 5 or so HD-DVD discs are quickly becoming 'classic media'. I should haveknown, since my XBOX360 HD-DVD drive resembles a 5 1/4 external C-64 device.... wweoeoooo

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » January 9, 2008, 12:46 pm

Fairweather Pure wrote:Rumor has it that Paramount/Dreamworks is poised to drop HD DVD exclusive. If so, Universal would be the last major player supporting the format. Paramount claims to still be supporting the format, but announced no new titles at CES. Apparently, the lawyers have been going over thier options since they have an escape clause with Toshiba.

Paramount issued a statement today denying this rumor.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » January 9, 2008, 2:03 pm

People's Front of Judea vs. Judean People's Front!

Interesting that it was just a rumor (so they tell us). I just want it to be over so I can get virtually any new release in whatever HD format wins.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » January 9, 2008, 2:14 pm

Splitters!

Does this make Winnow "The Popular Front of Judea"?

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » January 10, 2008, 4:31 pm

The Paramount rumors are still out there, with Universal rumors also starting to float around. I'm more inclined to belive them than not.

Some are predicting a "true end" of the format wars by the end of the month.

I guess Paramount had a good number of Blu Ray titles announced last year befre they went HD DVD exclusive and cancelled those titles. Interstingly, many of tose Blu Ray titles were pressed and stored away. If they go Blu ray, some Paramount titles will be hitting store shelves almost immediatly.

Trek · Post by **Trek** » January 10, 2008, 7:59 pm

I say fuck em all. right in the peehole

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » January 10, 2008, 8:16 pm

Fairweather Pure wrote:The Paramount rumors are still out there, with Universal rumors also starting to float around. I'm more inclined to belive them than not.

Some are predicting a "true end" of the format wars by the end of the month.

I guess Paramount had a good number of Blu Ray titles announced last year befre they went HD DVD exclusive and cancelled those titles. Interstingly, many of tose Blu Ray titles were pressed and stored away. If they go Blu ray, some Paramount titles will be hitting store shelves almost immediatly.

A "true end" would be great. Took fucking years to resolve VHS vs. Betamax. Of course, the lesser product won there.... I think BRD and HDDVD are pretty much the same as far as picture quality, with BRD having more storage capacity.

sony makes me hate sometimes

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » January 10, 2008, 8:17 pm

Go HD-DVD!

I've seen a few articles confirming what Microsoft said long ago in that they'd support Blu-Ray with the 360 if it wins. I can't remember the Microsoft exec's name I saw interviewed on CNBC yesterday but he basically said the same thing, "whatever the people decide, we'll go with".

Supporting Blu-Ray would really only mean selling a stand alone add-on just like they do for HD-DVD. Not a super big deal since they won't release games on either HD format.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » January 10, 2008, 8:28 pm

I was (and still am) hoping for HD-DVD to win out as well, considering I have a HD-DVD player.

Next up--HD-LaserDisc!

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » February 15, 2008, 5:05 pm

WalMart officially going Blu-Ray only in June.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/15/wal- ... s-by-june/

If it wasn't done before, it is now...

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » February 15, 2008, 5:12 pm

The format war looks to be coming to an official end with Toshiba widely expected to pull the plug on its HD DVD format sometime in the coming weeks says The Hollywood Reporter.

Officially no decision has been made, but a marketing exec for the company has given definite hints that something is about to happen.

The fledgling format cut its prices after the notable defection of Warner Bros. Pictures to Blu-ray in January, but the hoped for sales increase never materialised.

This week's defection of major retailers Best Buy and Netflix have said to have finally sealed the format's fate.

The question that now remains is when will HD-DVD exclusive studios Paramount and Universal be making the jump to Blu-ray?

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » February 15, 2008, 5:42 pm

Anytime now, I imagine.

Also, I wonder when MS is going to yank HD-DVD 360 addons.

Debating whether to buy up a bunch of HD-DVD titles when the prices get hacked to next to nothing....

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » February 15, 2008, 5:46 pm

Canelek wrote:Anytime now, I imagine.

Also, I wonder when MS is going to yank HD-DVD 360 addons.

Debating whether to buy up a bunch of HD-DVD titles when the prices get hacked to next to nothing....

Amazon already has 50% off most HD-DVDs (but not the matrix box set, yet

)

Fash · Post by **Fash** » February 15, 2008, 5:59 pm

Does anyone think BluRay is the better format?... 1, I hate Sony.. 2, I hate Java..

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » February 15, 2008, 6:03 pm

Fash wrote:Does anyone think BluRay is the better format?... 1, I hate Sony.. 2, I hate Java..

I hate Sony, but just hating Sony isn't good enough to say HD-DVD is better. Bluray has a higher capacity, but costs more to make discs (i believe), has sony royalties attached to it, and it costs more to make the laster that reads bluray. HD-DVD has a smaller capacity, no royalties (or much cheaper than sony, i've never heard it mentioned), and the disc/players are cheaper to produce.

So really, it's up in the air as to which one is better (technically/financially speaking). Funny thing is, if you advertise a Bluray or HD-DVD player as an upconverting player (which they all do), they sell better than advertising them as HD players.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » February 15, 2008, 8:15 pm

The thing that really annoys me about Blu-Ray is the Unfinished Profile thing. Right now you have players with profile 1, 1.1 and a smattering of Profile 2's out there.

I'm picking up the PS3 next time the price drops as a Blu-Ray player to avoid this whole mess as it's the only upgradable Blu-Ray player out there..

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » February 17, 2008, 1:26 pm

Animalor wrote:Right now you have players with profile 1, 1.1 and a smattering of Profile 2's out there.

I'm picking up the PS3 next time the price drops as a Blu-Ray player to avoid this whole mess as it's the only upgradable Blu-Ray player out there..

As far as players go, the PS3 is by far the best option due to this exact reason. I'm curious if Xbox will be offering a Blu Ray add-on in the future.

Post by **Xouqoa** » February 18, 2008, 1:07 am

If you want a Blu-Ray player, the PS3 is a no-brainer in my opinion.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » February 18, 2008, 2:04 am

Fairweather Pure wrote:
Animalor wrote:Right now you have players with profile 1, 1.1 and a smattering of Profile 2's out there.

I'm picking up the PS3 next time the price drops as a Blu-Ray player to avoid this whole mess as it's the only upgradable Blu-Ray player out there..
As far as players go, the PS3 is by far the best option due to this exact reason. I'm curious if Xbox will be offering a Blu Ray add-on in the future.

I think you can pretty much rest assured that once it is final that blu ray wins, MS will include Blu Ray support in it's next update. I think we are still far enough from the next gen of consoles that they won't wait. I could be wrong, but I would be surprised.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » February 19, 2008, 2:57 am

http://www.theage.com.au/news/biztech/s ... 03474.html

A Toshiba source, speaking to Reuters, confirmed earlier reports that the company was planning to concede defeat as early as this month.

Earlier, a report by Japanese public broadcaster NHK said Toshiba would soon discontinue all HD DVD production and close factories in Japan. It estimated the move would cost Toshiba hundreds of millions of US dollars.

It follows a series of defections to the Blu-ray camp by major US retailers, which came on the back of already disappointing sales and movie studio support for HD DVD.

"We have entered the final stage of planning to make our exit from the next generation DVD business," the Toshiba source said.

Toshiba has so far declined to comment on the reports.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » February 19, 2008, 8:29 am

I'll up that rumor with an official press release from Toshiba stating that HD-DVD is OFFICIALLY dead.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/19/offi ... r-is-over/

Toshiba Announces Discontinuation of HD DVD Businesses

19 February, 2008

Company Remains Focused on Championing Consumer Access to High Definition Content

TOKYO--Toshiba Corporation today announced that it has undertaken a thorough review of its overall strategy for HD DVD and has decided it will no longer develop, manufacture and market HD DVD players and recorders. This decision has been made following recent major changes in the market. Toshiba will continue, however, to provide full product support and after-sales service for all owners of Toshiba HD DVD products.

HD DVD was developed to offer consumers access at an affordable price to high-quality, high definition content and prepare them for the digital convergence of tomorrow where the fusion of consumer electronics and IT will continue to progress.

"We carefully assessed the long-term impact of continuing the so-called 'next-generation format war' and concluded that a swift decision will best help the market develop," said Atsutoshi Nishida, President and CEO of Toshiba Corporation. "While we are disappointed for the company and more importantly, for the consumer, the real mass market opportunity for high definition content remains untapped and Toshiba is both able and determined to use our talent, technology and intellectual property to make digital convergence a reality."

Toshiba will continue to lead innovation, in a wide range of technologies that will drive mass market access to high definition content. These include high capacity NAND flash memory, small form factor hard disk drives, next generation CPUs, visual processing, and wireless and encryption technologies. The company expects to make forthcoming announcements around strategic progress in these convergence technologies.

Toshiba will begin to reduce shipments of HD DVD players and recorders to retail channels, aiming for cessation of these businesses by the end of March 2008. Toshiba also plans to end volume production of HD DVD disk drives for such applications as PCs and games in the same timeframe, yet will continue to make efforts to meet customer requirements. The company will continue to assess the position of notebook PCs with integrated HD DVD drives within the overall PC business relative to future market demand.

This decision will not impact on Toshiba's commitment to standard DVD, and the company will continue to market conventional DVD players and recorders. Toshiba intends to continue to contribute to the development of the DVD industry, as a member of the DVD Forum, an international organization with some 200 member companies, committed to the discussion and defining of optimum optical disc formats for the consumer and the related industries.

Toshiba also intends to maintain collaborative relations with the companies who joined with Toshiba in working to build up the HD DVD market, including Universal Studios, Paramount Pictures, and DreamWorks Animation and major Japanese and European content providers on the entertainment side, as well as leaders in the IT industry, including Microsoft, Intel, and HP. Toshiba will study possible collaboration with these companies for future business opportunities, utilizing the many assets generated through the development of HD DVD.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » February 19, 2008, 8:32 am

Double Post.

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » February 19, 2008, 10:23 am

They could save the format if they made it accessible and cheap to pirate things onto HD disks...in my opinion, its the same reason blu-ray will never truly take off. Whatever comes "next" is probably going to be the big consumer switch IMO. If Toshiba wanted to be dicks, they would find a way to make cheap HD DVD recorders, and bundle it with software that could compress Bluray onto a HDDVD-R, and voila! Lame Duck piss on Sony move for their exit

Anyways, its funny because I bought my HD DVD player as an upconverter and just took the free movies as a bonus/rebate...if only Bluray players were as inexpensive.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » February 19, 2008, 11:15 am

I noticed a lot of HD-DVD open box players at the Best Buy near me over the weekend. A friend that works in that department said that they got a lot of returns from holiday purchases at the end of the return period since people were hearing so much about what wouldn't be available to them. None of it had to do with them actually preferring BluRay, as many would have kept the HD-DVD players if the support from the film distributors was still there. That's the part of this that sucks (even though I don't have either format).

Fash · Post by **Fash** » February 19, 2008, 11:24 am

It pisses me off that they will completely abandon the format and everyone who already bought the hardware. I don't see why both can't co-exist without the crooked exclusivity deals.

Siji · Post by **Siji** » February 19, 2008, 12:54 pm

I can't feel bad for a company losing hundreds of millions of dollars when there shouldn't have been two competing formats in the first place. Hopefully this will serve as lesson number two not to do this sort of monkey fucking again.

I do however feel bad for the people losing their jobs in the factories that will shut down. Heaven forbid they just keep them open and start producing Blu-Ray stuff.

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » February 19, 2008, 12:58 pm

Siji wrote:I can't feel bad for a company losing hundreds of millions of dollars when there shouldn't have been two competing formats in the first place. Hopefully this will serve as lesson number two not to do this sort of monkey fucking again.

I do however feel bad for the people losing their jobs in the factories that will shut down. Heaven forbid they just keep them open and start producing Blu-Ray stuff.

The manufacturing of the discs and players is very different I believe. At least, HD-DVD was cheaper to make than Bluray, and Bluray has a higher capacity per layer, meaning that the discs are very different. So, i'm not sure how easily the factories could be converted.

Knarlz · Post by **Knarlz** » February 19, 2008, 6:11 pm

interesting. A year ago I would have bet that Sony had the return of the son of betamax going for them. I still don't expect to buy one for 5 years or so. And then only if forced to by no cheaper options available. ( i.e. dvd goes away )

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » February 20, 2008, 1:38 pm

The first day after the official concession of the HD-DVD format and things are beginning to change.

Universal's Home Entertainment Division President Craig Kornblau says that "it is time to turn our focus to releasing new and catalog titles on Blu-ray" - effectively turning the longest running HD-DVD exclusive supporter into a Blu-ray backer. It's expected the studio will begin releasing past HD-DVD titles on the format shortly including such films as the 'Bourne' and 'Mummy' series.

The other HD-DVD exclusive studio, Paramount Pictures, has stayed surprisingly quiet in regards to the announcement. Warner Bros. Pictures has said that there are currently no changes planned in its release schedule as a result of Toshiba's decision and will continue releasing HD-DVD titles until May.

LG says it would continue to support HD-DVD in the wake of Toshiba's announcement and plans to continue with its dual-format player series for early adopters as "at this present moment in time, it is necessary to provide a player which supports both formats and therefore create simplicity and convenience for the existing HDDVD consumer."

Toshiba says they have no plans to produce players using rival Blu-ray technology at present.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · February 20, 2008, 2:38 pm

Buddy of mine at Circuit City said the HD-DVD players could all be as low as $50 around Mar. 6th.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » February 20, 2008, 2:57 pm

Yeah, I might pick the HD DVD drive up once it hits low prices, and pick up a handful of movies too since those should get cheap.

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » February 20, 2008, 2:59 pm

Funkmasterr wrote:Yeah, I might pick the HD DVD drive up once it hits low prices, and pick up a handful of movies too since those should get cheap.

Most are the same price as DVDs now on amazon.com (combo formats are still more)

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 20, 2008, 7:57 pm

I haven't bought any Blu Ray movies for my PS3 yet and didn't send off to get my five free ones so the HD Disk wars aren't that exciting to me.

I wonder if the recent 360 console shortage was due to Microsoft being about to announce a 360 with HD-DVD player at CES but after Warner chose Blu Ray, HD-DVD/360 canceled their presentation.

They might be re-outfitting future HD-DVD 360's with DVD-DL players or working on a deal to put a Blu Ray player in the 360.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » February 20, 2008, 9:55 pm

I'm waiting for LaserDisc to make a comeback...

Siji · Post by **Siji** » February 21, 2008, 6:31 pm

No bringing laserdiscs back until after they bring back vinyl albums. I miss opening an album and pulling out the sleeve. Most records had decent stuff on those sleeves, and it was much easier to read than quarter sized CD sleeves.

Be curious to see how long until Blu-ray players come down in price.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » February 21, 2008, 7:01 pm

I dont really have a need for a HD player at the moment. However my current DVD player doesn't really work so I might pick up a HD-DVD when they get cheaper. I hear they are good upscaling DVD players. So if I can pick one up for $75 or less I probably will.

Siji · Post by **Siji** » February 22, 2008, 7:23 pm

Communist!

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » July 6, 2010, 6:16 pm

Aslanna wrote:I seldom buy DVDs anymore so really either format winning isn't a big deal for me. Now as far as recordable media goes it would be nice if they could get down to a reasonable price because until then I wont even consider them over DVDs. A 25 cent coaster isn't a big deal. A $25 coaster (price of a 25gb Blu-Ray disc) would make me rather upset. I just don't think the price/performance ratio makes it worthwhile at this time. Or really the foreseeable future. And by that I mean within the next 2-3 years.

So for me nothing really changes. Alert me when there is a low cost, high-capacity format here and ready to use.

20 pack 25GB Blu-Ray discs for $30 has me considering switching over to Blu-Ray for backing up stuff. it's BD-R LTH from Verbatim and isn't compatible with all Blu-Ray burners but I'd make sure I got on on the list. Has anyone had experience with these in general? The reviews seem generally positive although there's only 18 so far. $30 for 500 GB is about the same (price and capacity) as you'd pay for a 100 pack DVD spindle other than the initial cost of the burner.

Note however that I still don't give a hoot about the Blu-Ray format in general. I just would rather be able to fit more stuff onto a single disc.

Canelek wrote:Seems my 5 or so HD-DVD discs are quickly becoming 'classic media'. I should haveknown, since my XBOX360 HD-DVD drive resembles a 5 1/4 external C-64 device.... wweoeoooo

Commodore 1541. Best disk drive. Ever.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » July 6, 2010, 6:42 pm

At the fine price of $100/MB it was a steal!

And yes, my poor HD-DVD disks.... damn shame!

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » July 6, 2010, 7:51 pm

Aslanna wrote:
Aslanna wrote:I seldom buy DVDs anymore so really either format winning isn't a big deal for me. Now as far as recordable media goes it would be nice if they could get down to a reasonable price because until then I wont even consider them over DVDs. A 25 cent coaster isn't a big deal. A $25 coaster (price of a 25gb Blu-Ray disc) would make me rather upset. I just don't think the price/performance ratio makes it worthwhile at this time. Or really the foreseeable future. And by that I mean within the next 2-3 years.

So for me nothing really changes. Alert me when there is a low cost, high-capacity format here and ready to use.
20 pack 25GB Blu-Ray discs for $30 has me considering switching over to Blu-Ray for backing up stuff. it's BD-R LTH from Verbatim and isn't compatible with all Blu-Ray burners but I'd make sure I got on on the list. Has anyone had experience with these in general? The reviews seem generally positive although there's only 18 so far. $30 for 500 GB is about the same (price and capacity) as you'd pay for a 100 pack DVD spindle other than the initial cost of the burner.

Note however that I still don't give a hoot about the Blu-Ray format in general. I just would rather be able to fit more stuff onto a single disc.

Canelek wrote:Seems my 5 or so HD-DVD discs are quickly becoming 'classic media'. I should haveknown, since my XBOX360 HD-DVD drive resembles a 5 1/4 external C-64 device.... wweoeoooo
Commodore 1541. Best disk drive. Ever.

I just purchased this thing a week or so ago:

http://www.lg.com/us/computer-products/ ... 2B1DD1.jsp

It's a gigabit NAS device with built in Blu Ray recorder. I got it super cheap (like in the $2xx.00 range) at Fry's.

I bought the 1TB version with only one HD and added a second 2TB drive for a total of 3TB.

The reason I bought it is that it has a Blu Ray player as well which makes for easy back ups. Blu Ray 25GB recordable disks are cheap now. I have tons of artwork that fills up HD space as well as just wanting certain things backed up on something other than a HD.

This particular NAS is very quiet and it's been a breeze to make blu ray data backups from files stored on the NAS itself. You can also make bakkups from files on your PC's hard drives but I haven't taken the time to set that up.

So...for somewhere around 250.00, I got to what amounts to an external Blu Ray player (that's cheaper thatn external blu ray recorders!...also got the NAS device itself which turns out to be nice quality along with the 1TB drive which I really didnt care about but now i added 2TB more for total of 3TB and, with total of ~7.5TB on my network.

It's worth a look if you're looking for cheap way to get a Blu Ray recorder for backups that has a very useful purpose of being a gigabit NAS device as well.

Be sure to shop around. It can be had cheap...or I just was lucky with a nice sale that I found. Fry's shows the 2TB version at $384.00. I think I got my 1TB versionfor like $259.00 (compare that to a stand alone Blu Ray recorder for value)

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » July 6, 2010, 11:23 pm

The 1TB version of that seems to be $350 everywhere. Plus it doesn't do the LTH discs which seem to be in my desired price range. Whereas I can get a burner for my PC and 20 discs for $200. It's a nice device and all just not sure it's as much as I want to spend and not have the ability to burn the cheaper media. Unless LG comes out with a new firmware for it or something.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » July 7, 2010, 10:05 am

Aslanna wrote:The 1TB version of that seems to be $350 everywhere. Plus it doesn't do the LTH discs which seem to be in my desired price range. Whereas I can get a burner for my PC and 20 discs for $200. It's a nice device and all just not sure it's as much as I want to spend and not have the ability to burn the cheaper media. Unless LG comes out with a new firmware for it or something.

I haven't heard much good about LTH type media. It's cheap for sure but you can get the standard blanks for not much more.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » July 7, 2010, 11:54 am

Ya know, Xbox Live, PSN and my Cable Provider's on-demand service rent HD movies for 5.99(Sony) and 7.99(MS) and 9.99(Cable) respectively. Couple that with the fact that Blu Ray movies are incredibly expensive to buy STILL and rental places are going out of business left and right, I don't see Blu-Ray disks for movies hitting the volumes DVD achieved EVER.

I've had my PS3 for about a year now and over that time my wife and I have rented movies on-demand far more often than we've rented Blu-Ray disks (by a ratio of about 3:1). We ended up renting DVD's frequently because it's cheaper and those movies didn't really benefit from Blu (see Hot Tub Time Machine) or were plainly not available at the rental place in Blu when we wanted it either.

Blu is great for storage for gaming and content but the only games that have made proper use of it have done so for massive rendered 1080p cut scenes. (see FF13 and MSG4).

Hindsight is a funny thing. That whole war was waged for essentially breadcrumbs.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » July 7, 2010, 12:35 pm

Nifty. Thanks for the link and info, Winnow!

I have lost far too much data via hard drive, so this may be a nice and somewhat cheap solution!

miir · Post by **miir** » July 7, 2010, 1:05 pm

Blu Ray movies are incredibly expensive to buy STILL

Where are you looking.
Blu-Ray new releases are usually just a few dollars more then DVD... and it's becoming pretty common to have Blu Ray, DVD and digital versions in the same package.

That whole war was waged for essentially breadcrumbs

In what universe is $15m-85m/week in revenue considered breadcrumbs?

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » July 7, 2010, 1:38 pm

miir wrote:
Blu Ray movies are incredibly expensive to buy STILL
Where are you looking.
Blu-Ray new releases are usually just a few dollars more then DVD... and it's becoming pretty common to have Blu Ray, DVD and digital versions in the same package.

$15-20 for new release DVD's
$25-30 for Blu Ray new releases

more than a few dollars difference still.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » July 7, 2010, 1:41 pm

Canelek wrote:Nifty. Thanks for the link and info, Winnow!

I have lost far too much data via hard drive, so this may be a nice and somewhat cheap solution!

Welcome! I think my 250.00 cost was a little low. It was on sale but prob just under 300.00 (ill check later). It was at Fry's in one of their Friday Ads when I got it. I'm happy with how quiet it is. My last Buffalo (one of the original 1 TB NAS) was loud and vibrated. This is very quiet.

miir · Post by **miir** » July 7, 2010, 1:42 pm

The last dozen or so BluRays I bought were around $20

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » July 7, 2010, 1:44 pm

Boogahz wrote:
miir wrote:
Blu Ray movies are incredibly expensive to buy STILL
Where are you looking.
Blu-Ray new releases are usually just a few dollars more then DVD... and it's becoming pretty common to have Blu Ray, DVD and digital versions in the same package.
$15-20 for new release DVD's
$25-30 for Blu Ray new releases

more than a few dollars difference still.

Retail, sure.

Amazon.com ftw! Still some for the $20+ price, but commonly, new releases (and old) are around the $15-17 range. Pretty much the same as DVDs much of the time. Of course, mileage will vary...