Is this a scam as far as you know?

Pilsburry · Post by **Pilsburry** » November 17, 2003, 1:13 am

I put my Sunfire up for $4,250.....it's blue book is like $2,300...it's old as fuck and it's dented etc...

Anyway today I closed on a sale to some guy, I told him the paint is fucked, I gave him close up shots of the dents... he agreed to $3,500.

Here is where it gets weird....

He is in england. He is sending me a cashiers check for $7,950, I keep $3,500 and turn the rest over to the shipping company....$4,450 in shipping.

OK, now if that isn't weird anough....

Later today...same day I agreed to sale...actually a couple hours later...

2 seperate people contact me, both from France....They are eager to pay asking price of $4,250 (but I already told the one dude he can have it, I'm a man of my word). They would of course have similar shippign charges and were also mentioning paying via cashiers cheque.

Is this a scam? I don't see why people are wanting to pay more in shipping than the car is worth on a car they are already paying more than blue book for....

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » November 17, 2003, 1:15 am

Maybe there are no Sunfires in Europe, and they just like em!

-=Lohrno

Rivera Bladestrike · November 17, 2003, 1:26 am

Lohrno wrote:Maybe there are no Sunfires in Europe, and they just like em!

-=Lohrno

Yeah.... right hehe. Sunfires aren't exactly the most desirable car.

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » November 17, 2003, 1:32 am

Rivera Bladestrike wrote: Yeah.... right hehe. Sunfires aren't exactly the most desirable car.

Maybe its just the novelty of the thing? Like they don't have Pontiac there, and want people to go "Whoa, what kinda car is that?"

Maybe Pils' BSin (That's a pretty specific and pointless thing to BS about but...)?

Pilsburry · Post by **Pilsburry** » November 17, 2003, 1:38 am

I'm not BS'ing....

I'm seriously afraid this is a scam somehow...that's why I posted it here.

I was hoping someone would be able to tell me where I could look up information about car scams via cashiers cheques from europe or something....

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » November 17, 2003, 1:44 am

Maybe you should contact the shipping company if your so worried, ask if they do this normally or questions of that sort

Pilsburry · Post by **Pilsburry** » November 17, 2003, 1:58 am

Hmm....

http://www.used-car-advisor.com/car-buyer-scam.htm

The excess amount they are referrig to could be the shipping cost he was including?

Asheran Mojomaster · November 17, 2003, 1:58 am

Its prolly not a scam. Why do you think people here in the states buy BMWs, Porches, ect? Usually you can get an American car that is just as good for OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS cheaper because they dont have to pay to import the car and can sell it for much less with no loss. In Europe, it would be OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS cooler( and I believe more expensive) to have something like a Mustang than a BMW, not because Mustangs are better, but because they are not nearly as common.

Though, not sure why they would really want an old Sunfire though, if they wanted an old fixer upper I would think they would go for something like an old Mustang or something like that. But whatever.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » November 17, 2003, 2:00 am

You arrange the pricing/shipping of the vehicle yourself and tack the price on at the end of the bottom line sale. Once prices are fixed, get a certified check or money order from the buyer. Cash that fucker and ship away. I can't see a way that could be a scam.

Just make sure you get all the details about shipping a vehicle overseas in writing as well as having the shipping company explain everything to you as if you were a 3 yr. old. It can be rather complex now since 9/11 and the final destination can throw a lot of kinks into the mix. If one term of contract is missing or unclear, the entire deal can be utterly fucked and cost you in the end.

Mak · Post by **Mak** » November 17, 2003, 2:07 am

Or, simply wait until the bank verifies that the check is authentic before shipping the vehicle and/or returning any money. Advise the buyer of that beforehand and see if he still sends it.

And as has been said, verify the shipping amount to make sure you are sent enough to cover it.

Pilsburry · Post by **Pilsburry** » November 17, 2003, 2:10 am

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/scams/carsale.asp

Another link....

This one tells it just like it's happening to me but instead of Nigerians it's french and english.

I'm really starting to think this is a scam, I'm going to have to watch my ass and make sure that check clears all the way before I ship the car...

It says the checks need like 10-14 days to clear but the bank will give you the money almost immediately because they are forced to under law then they find out it's a forged check and take the money back, noone picks up your car for shipping, but the amount you sent the shipper ($4,450 in my case) would come right out of my pocket.

I'm wonder since I'm like 70% sure this is a scam now, if I should maybe fuck with this guy(s) someway.

Mak · Post by **Mak** » November 17, 2003, 2:15 am

High quality forgeries can be bounced back and forth between banks for weeks before anyone catches on to their being worthless, by which time victims have long since wired the "overpayments" to the con artists who have just taken them for a ride.

In light of this, it might be best to jsut stay domestic.

Tenuvil · Post by **Tenuvil** » November 17, 2003, 2:17 am

DON'T DO IT

CALL THE FBI NOW

Pilsburry · Post by **Pilsburry** » November 17, 2003, 2:25 am

Haha, yeah atleast the 2 french guys are scams....with all the other text int he message (from autotrader) I didn't realize thier text although one signed Keven and the other Nicholas....

Was exactly the same.....

am highly interested in buying your car.i will like you to give me the actul price of it.am a dealer in france and i will like to inform you that my mode of payment will be through cashier cheque.look forward for your reply
Nicholas

am highly interested in buying your car.i will like you to give me the actul price of it.am a dealer in france and i will like to inform you that my mode of payment will be through cashier cheque.look forward for your reply
Kelvin

The english guy has much better grammar, it has to be a different guy doing the scam...if it is a scam.

hi would you sell for$3700

Hi
I cannot come and take a look because i am not in your country(London England to be precise). Send recent pictures so i can make a better assesment.
David

You know what? I will waittill you have more pictures. Do include pictures of the engine too.Thank you.
David

Hello Jeff
From the way you sounded in your mail you seem an honest person, and there is noting like doing business with an honest person. I ll take you word for it that the car is the way you say it is.
I ll be making payment with an American cashier`s cheque, the cheque will be made out for $7950 of which the balance 4450 will be sent to my shipper to take care for his shipping charges.Send your full names and address so i can mail the cheque to you. Later
David

He actually asked for pictures, bartered the price down. Specifically asked for pictures of the engine and then waited to se more pictures on a sunny day after I got the car cleaned before making his decision.

I just wrote him back gave him a link to the scam and told him that I would have to wait for the cashier check to fully clear before sending any money to the shipper or putting my car on a boat and that I hoped we could still do business.

Pilsburry · Post by **Pilsburry** » November 17, 2003, 2:32 am

I don't think the FBI would do anything about this, the scam is so rampant and the people performing them are overseas.

Actually the shipper might be stateside.

But I probably scared off the english guy if he is a scammer, because the scam is for the check to bounce a week after I send the money out, but I plan on waiting to make sure it doesn't bounce....so he can't win.

If I was to call the FBI, who would I call there? Anyone have a number? Is it even the FBI I would contact?

Kalifen · Post by **Kalifen** » November 17, 2003, 2:34 am

I live in Sweden, granted Im not in to cars more than normaly in any way but I have never seen or heard about a Sunfire so it can verry well be that its rare over here and "thing" for people.

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » November 17, 2003, 2:38 am

Pilsburry wrote:Hmm....

http://www.used-car-advisor.com/car-buyer-scam.htm

The excess amount they are referrig to could be the shipping cost he was including?

Well, then explain that you'll wait for the check to clear before shipping it...

-=Lohrno

Pilsburry · Post by **Pilsburry** » November 17, 2003, 3:01 am

Just e-mailed auto trader asking them if they would provide links to common car sales scams in thier "vehicle lead" e-mails to help protect thier customers.

Maybe they will listen to my request.

Pilsburry · Post by **Pilsburry** » November 17, 2003, 3:05 am

For Kalifen:

This is a Sunfire. It's old...7-8 yrs old. My cost in 1996 was sticker of $11,500 US dollars...well more like $12,500 w/sunroof+bigger engine. It's an economy car type deal...30 mpg or so. 150hp/150torque.

someone paying around $8,000 now...8yrs later...sure it might be novel to have a rare car, but this is far from a classic car or sports car....it's no claim to fame.

Kwonryu DragonFist · November 17, 2003, 4:01 am

KALIFEN!

Hur e läget gubben?

Lirar du fortfarande EQ?

Något annat lir ?

*~*stragi*~* · Post by ***~*stragi*~*** » November 17, 2003, 7:56 am

Any of you still thinking this isn't a scam are pretty dense. Don't accept anything but cash pils.

Cracc · Post by **Cracc** » November 17, 2003, 7:59 am

han lirar ju sin lilla ranger porriga

Phugg_Innay · Post by **Phugg_Innay** » November 17, 2003, 10:59 am

When I put my Jeep up for sale online I got about a dozen of those "Canned replies" . I actually talked back and forth with a couple of them , and when it got to setting logistics , they flaked (what a surprise). Personally I feel its a scam , and did NOT follow through (except in talk via e-mail) I had NO intention of selling my vehicle to anyone overseas. I do have a step up on Pils if I did though , I am about 20 miles from the 2nd bussiest port in the US , Oakland Ca. I called a couple of the shipping co's over there and they said " Dont even try, you are going to get raped by the other guy".

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » November 17, 2003, 12:09 pm

We just had a big warning from our local news station about this kind of thing. Basically the buyer sends too much money for the item in question and then when informed of their mistake they ask you to send back the balance. Well, the check they sent you isn't good but the bank will still let you withdraw the money. You send it back and then find out the check is bad leaving you responsible for the money you withdrew. The banks don't care so long as they get their money and if it has to come from you, so be it. They even help you with the loan papers to pay back the cash.

So, wait for the check to clear before you think you have any money in your account.

Kguku · Post by **Kguku** » November 17, 2003, 12:13 pm

Never accept a cheque.

Draft / Money Order is what you want.

Speak with your local bank regarding what kind of Draft / Money Orders come from whatever country you are dealing with, and the clearing time required for those.

The reason you want a Draft / Money Order is because the money is then already spoken for - it's the equivalent of a certified cheque, however it's drawn on the financial institution, and not that persons account (that person has already paid the financial institution in question).

If this person is unwilling to provide a Draft / Money Order, then you do not do business with them. This is the same as dealing with transactions in person - Draft / Money Order or nothing.

Seebs · Post by **Seebs** » November 17, 2003, 12:25 pm

Something similar was on the local news. Here is the scam:

Foreign country send s you a check over the amount you are asking. You get the check, they ask you for the overage that they sent. You send them back the overage only to find the original check is no good. You are out the overage amount and some nasty bank fees.

Have fun going to France, UAE, Sweden or the Ivory Coast to get that money back.

Pils, do it only if you wish to let us rag on you for months. Otherwise, stay local and get cash.

Too good to be true = screwed

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » November 17, 2003, 12:26 pm

Pilsburry wrote:For Kalifen:

This is a Sunfire. It's old...7-8 yrs old. My cost in 1996 was sticker of $11,500 US dollars...well more like $12,500 w/sunroof+bigger engine. It's an economy car type deal...30 mpg or so. 150hp/150torque.

someone paying around $8,000 now...8yrs later...sure it might be novel to have a rare car, but this is far from a classic car or sports car....it's no claim to fame.

Pils!! How in the hell did you fit that Fat Ass Kylere in that car?

Claritin-CT · Post by **Claritin-CT** » November 17, 2003, 12:34 pm

Don't do it bro... don't do it.

When ever someone says "your honest" when really they have no idea if you are or if you aren't... it's a scam.

Quite frankly they are trying to make you feel guilty if you don't treat them like they are honest... because they have treated you like you are honest. It's the 2-way street concept... they trust you so you gotta trust them.... NOT!

Don't do it... don't even give him time for the check to clear.. just flat out refuse the check. Your going to get burned for OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS of cash... OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS of it. If you do get burned you would be better off GIVING THE CAR AWAY than participating in this deal... So looking at the possible outcomes I would say screw the deal... screw this dude's "hurt feelings" when you say he isn't honest... and sell it to someone local.

There is no F'ing way someone in England wants your Sunfire... no way in hell. If they wanted a sunfire they would buy one brand new. You don't pay as much to ship a car as you pay FOR the car. If you are going to pay thousands in shipping you buy a NEW car.

The only thing I really hear of people wanting to import from the US is our SUV's... and even that is not common... it's just that ours are usually bigger. Although the Honda Pilot is pretty big now.... almost the size of my Durango. The Expedition and Suburban might be worth importing because I don't think any forgien makers can beat those.

Forget the deal... I am serious. If you don't want to do it I will... give me his e-mail address I will hurt his feelings really good.

Or... better yet. Create another e-mail address... write him selling your 1999 Monte Carlo SS or some other american made car. PRETEND LIKE YOU HAVE ALREADY SPOKEN. Like this.

"Hi This is Jim again... I was wondering if we could go $4,500 instead of $4,400 on the Monte Carlo... if you can than it is a deal. Thanks!"

Wait for him to respond... if he doesn't respond calling you a crackpot than you know 100% that he is going to F you... however even if he does call you a crackpot you are will 99% sure.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » November 17, 2003, 12:35 pm

Scam. Oh and am prettu sure Sunfires aren't sold in Europe at all.

Skogen · Post by **Skogen** » November 17, 2003, 12:38 pm

"It's a trap!"

-Admiral Akbar.

tabytha · Post by **tabytha** » November 17, 2003, 1:01 pm

Well I sold my Jeep when I lived in the UK. They did not have anything liek it there.

BUt look at it this way. You get the check in hand take it to the bank. Since it is a cashiers check then the money is right in hand. If you get it then you know its not a fake. As far as the selling it to anybody else, that is up to you. If you are a man of your word go thru with what you said before but if you feel uneasy don't sell it.

Skogen · Post by **Skogen** » November 17, 2003, 1:12 pm

I want to bring one of these bad boys over from Poland:

the things are EVERYWHERE over there, and are DIRT cheap. Slow stock, but handle wonderfully. They are about the same size as an original Mini, but with a slightly larger wheel size.

miir · Post by **miir** » November 17, 2003, 1:22 pm

In Europe, it would be a lot cooler( and I believe more expensive) to have something like a Mustang than a BMW

That's utterly absurd.

Skogen · Post by **Skogen** » November 17, 2003, 1:27 pm

/nod

Mustangs = Total crap. I know 3 people that have mustangs (02, 03 & 03)
and they all have constant problems with them.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » November 17, 2003, 1:56 pm

Do it Pils! It's completely legit! In fact there are two factions in europe currently fighting over your car.

One wants it for anti-american demonstrations. The car will be smuggled into russia for this purpose...later it will be resold in Mexico for a profit:

The other faction has plans to turn your superior american technology Sunfire into the ultimate fighting vehicle. I've managed to secure a picture detailing the plans to modify your car!

Either way, who cares! You'll have the cash and their dastardly Euro schemes are sure to be foiled at some point anyway!

noel · Post by **noel** » November 17, 2003, 2:12 pm

Pils, it is ABSOLUTELY a scam. Do not even waste your time with people who claim to be overseas. I've got a coworker who sells Harley's, and he was explaining to me how the scam works. The check will never cash. Seriously, don't do it.

Ennia · Post by **Ennia** » November 17, 2003, 2:26 pm

it's been said already but I'll kick that dead horse once again

DON'T DO IT!

If you feel bad just write the guy that you sold it locally over the weekend or something.

noel · Post by **noel** » November 17, 2003, 2:53 pm

Here's how the scam works. This is not the only way.

1. Auction goes up for big ticket item.
2. Someone offers to buy, says they will take care of the shipping through a company they're aware of.
3. They send you a fraudulent cashier's check from a non-existant bank.
4. Your bank does the initial deposit within 24 hours.
5. You ship item to wherever.
6. Up to two weeks later, when the check is found to be fraudulent, your bank pulls the money from your account.
7. You're now out the amount of the check and the vehicle.

Additionally, it can happen the same as before with this difference.

3. They send you a check for more than the amount you're asking. They tell you their 'friend' has a cashier's check for them, and they're just going to pass it along to you. Call it 10k on a 6k auction price.
4. They ask you to just wire them back the difference, when the check clears.
5. Check clears, you wire them the difference.
6. You never hear from them again.

Don't do it man.

Skogen · Post by **Skogen** » November 17, 2003, 3:32 pm

Take his fucking check, and dont even bother to ever send the car.

If it's fraud, fine. You still have your car. If it isn't...FREE $$$$!!11!!1!

Shaerra · Post by **Shaerra** » November 17, 2003, 3:39 pm

Tell him it sounds good, get the check, give it to a bank to have it investigated, but don't send the car. He's out the time it took to create the forgery, and maybe he'll get caught.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0264464/

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » November 17, 2003, 3:41 pm

it's not a scam. just deposit the check and send the car out the same day.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » November 17, 2003, 3:55 pm

kyoukan wrote:it's not a scam. just deposit the check and send the car out the same day.

Hehehe... I say scam them back! Put up hundreds of these ads for cars you don't have and collect the cheques to wallpaper your WC for free!!

masteen · Post by **masteen** » November 17, 2003, 4:08 pm

You also might specify that you will not ship the car until the check has cleared your bank. Make sure to talk with someone at the bank (NOT A TELLER) to verify that the check is legit (they can tell you in under 5 minutes if the bank exists) and has the funds to cover it.

Tenuvil · Post by **Tenuvil** » November 17, 2003, 6:55 pm

Pilsburry wrote:...If I was to call the FBI, who would I call there? Anyone have a number? Is it even the FBI I would contact?

I think you are local to Cincinnati...I used my 1337 intarnet powars and found

http://cincinnati.fbi.gov/

CINCINNATI
DIVISION

Office Information

JOHN WELD PECK FEDERAL BUILDING
550 MAIN STREET
SUITE 9000
CINCINNATI, OHIO 45202

Phone: (513) 421-4310
Fax: (513) 562-5650
E-mail: cincinnati@fbi.gov

Business Hours

FBI Cincinnati operates 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Normal "walk-in" business hours are from 8:15 a.m. to 5:00 p.m., Monday through Friday. If you need to speak with an FBI representative at any time other than normal business hours, you may call (513) 421-4310 and someone will assist you.

And yes the FBI wants to know about Internet and/or overseas fraud attempts, especially when they deal with fraudulent bank activity. They even mention the Nigeria scams on their main home page.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » November 17, 2003, 7:08 pm

Yes, lets take CIA resources away from tracking down terrorists and put them on a case that anyone who's ever read a Nancy Drew or Hardy Boys book could figure out.

noel · Post by **noel** » November 17, 2003, 7:11 pm

Winnow wrote:Yes, lets take CIA resources away from tracking down terrorists and put them on a case that anyone who's ever read a Nancy Drew or Hardy Boys book could figure out.

Please don't forget about Alfred Hitchcock's 'Three Investigators'!

Anyway it's the FBI.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » November 17, 2003, 9:07 pm

Encyclopedia Brown PWNS Nancy Drew and the Hardy Boys but I went for the more mainstream series!

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » November 17, 2003, 9:09 pm

Aranuil wrote:
Winnow wrote:Yes, lets take CIA resources away from tracking down terrorists and put them on a case that anyone who's ever read a Nancy Drew or Hardy Boys book could figure out.
Please don't forget about Alfred Hitchcock's 'Three Investigators'!

Anyway it's the FBI.

I wouldn't even call the Cheese Police for this one!
---------------------
Encyclopedia Brown PWNS Nancy Drew and the Hardy Boys but I went for the more mainstream series to give my hijacking more of a chance!

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » November 17, 2003, 9:26 pm

encyclopedia brown was a genius

i can't believe somebody else actually read and remembers those books

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » November 17, 2003, 9:49 pm

Sunserae wrote:encyclopedia brown was a genius

i can't believe somebody else actually read and remembers those books

VeeshanVault

Is this a scam as far as you know?

Is this a scam as far as you know?

Car scam